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Subject: Re: Pondering ("think on opponent's time")

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:24:26 11/11/02

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On November 11, 2002 at 08:21:01, Andreas Guettinger wrote:

>I would think that engine moves are easier to predict than human moves. I don't
>have the statistics to support this, it is simply based on experience following
>engine-human matches.
>
>So what may be a good strategy for one must not be so for the other. Predict
>engine moves in 1/2 of all the cases might be possible, but for humans moves I
>would suspect that it is less than 1/4 of all the cases. So possibly:
>


Depends.  In games vs GM players, Crafty averages predicting correctly 70-80%
of the time.  In games vs computers, this might drop to 60-70 for whatever
reasons.  But it is generally > 50% for all cases until you start throwing in
very weak opponents, as it drops to almost nothing in those cases, for obvious
reasons.  :)




>Strategy A) in engine tournaments.
>
>Strategy B) in human tournaments.
>
>Andreas
>
>
>
>On November 10, 2002 at 21:29:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 10, 2002 at 21:15:07, Jim Bumgardner wrote:
>>
>>>Which of these strategies for "think on opponent's time" makes more sense?
>>>
>>>A) To only search the top-move from the principle variation.  If
>>>the opponent makes that move, continue searching, otherwise reset and
>>>search again.
>>
>>This is the _only_ way to do it.  I've explained this many times, but it
>>is probably time to go it again...
>>
>>Suppose you predict your opponent's move correctly only 50% of the time.
>>And it should be pointed out that this is a _low_ estimate from thousands
>>of observed games (via log files).  This means that 1/2 of the time, you will
>>predict correctly and when your opponent moves, you have an instant response
>>ready.  1/2 of the time you get to think for free.
>>
>>Suppose you choose to search the top three moves instead of just the first one.
>>When your opponent has moved, you have spent 1/3 of the total time on each move.
>>You save 1/3 of the time.  And that is worse than saving 1/2.  If you only
>>search the top 2 moves, you will save 1/2 of the time, _if_ the move played is
>>one of those two, but occasionally it won't.
>>
>>It is really simple to see why searching only the best move is the right
>>idea.    I could think of a few cases where I might vary this, such as where
>>my target time is 3 minutes and my opponent searches for 12 minutes.  Do I
>>want to search one move for 12 minutes, or do I want to take a chance and
>>use 1/2 of that time (say) to search for an alternative best move?  Tough to
>>say, and although I have tried such ideas many times, I have always come back
>>to searching what I consider the best move only.  And since 50% is a low
>>prediction percentage, searching one move actually is even better than the
>>above pessimistic analysis.
>>
>>>
>>>B) To search all possible moves the opponent might make.  When the opponent
>>>moves, reset and search again (but faster, since the hash tables have been
>>>seeded).
>>
>>see above why this is not so good...
>>
>>
>>>
>>>C) Some other strategy?  For example, to use A) only if the top move is
>>>'singular' (has a significantly better score).
>>>
>>>What strategy does your chess engine use?  To date, I have been using "A",
>>>but I am beginning to think that "B" or "C" might be better.
>>>
>>>- Jim



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