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Subject: Re: Nullmove crap

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:12:59 12/19/02

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On December 19, 2002 at 07:59:40, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On December 19, 2002 at 00:21:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 18, 2002 at 22:55:44, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>
>>>On December 18, 2002 at 22:45:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>It is going to be a queen-odds game most every time, otherwise you have to make
>>>>_sure_ you never leave your queen open to a two-mover.  IE I play Ne6 and don't
>>>>let you play dxe6 in this case and instantly play Nxd8 and the game is basically
>>>>over.  There are lots of such "plans" to deal with.  I think a double move once
>>>>in a game is enough to offset at _least_ a 500 point rating difference.
>>>
>>>It sounds like you are assuming that your opponent won't know (or will
>>>momentarilly forget) about this added double move rule. IE your opponent isn't
>>>going to let you play Ne6, and then say, "oh, I completely forgot about the
>>>double move rule." He would probably prevent you from playing Ne6 in the first
>>>place, since he would have calculated ahead and known that if you get to play
>>>Ne6, he loses his queen.
>>>
>>
>>What I am saying is that it adds an impossible dimension to the game.  You have
>>to make moves that allow _no_ two-move tricks.  IE two-move checkmates, or
>>two-move tricks to win big material, or promote a pawn, or whatever...
>>
>>>I think it's a big advantage, but I think if you played 100 games between two
>>>computer opponents, both of which were knowledgable about the double move
>>>possibility, it wouldn't turn out 100-0, but I may be underestimating the
>>>advantage.
>>
>>You should try it.  I used to play several variants on this theme at chess
>>club meetings.  For example "may I".  It is a terrible advantage.
>
>
>Bob, I think that actually the GM could (if they wished, but of course they
>don't in a PR show for million dollars) almost 'zugzwang' a DEEP FRITZ. Feist
>was really believing that his high selectivity could bring advantages because
>the depth should be deep enough. But I am saying that good GM would find out the
>solution what the machine had "forgotten" to analyse. And therefore such
>nonsense is overall spoken good, for the majoritya of players, amateurs of
>course, but the best players have the killer instinct to find out the exceptions
>of the game.
>
>Rolf Tueschen


Yes, but here is where you are wrong:

You are talking about a particular _implementation_ of an idea (null-move search
as implented in Fritz.)  An "implementation" can be bad, while the original idea
is good.  I can think of automobiles that fit this category.  :)

But don't confuse "theoretical idea" with "practical implementation".



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