Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 06:21:39 04/15/03
Go up one level in this thread
On April 14, 2003 at 05:18:00, Uri Blass wrote:
As FM i do not see why black with a piece up would take a risk. Simply Qe6 and
then look whether c5 is possible or some other sequence works like manoeuvring a
knight or bishop to king side.
DIEP is doubting between all the moves. It doesn't see the difference between
risky lines like c5 and Qe6:
00:10 160598 161k 0 0 1681467 (2) 10 (285,1629) 0.156 Nf6-e8 Ne3-c4 Bb6-c7 Kh1-h
2 Nd7-b6 Nc4xb6 Bc7xb6 Rf3-f5 Qg8-e6 Rf5-f8
++ f6-h5 procnr=1 terug=157 org=[156;157] newwindow=[156;520000]
++ b6-e3 procnr=1 terug=157 org=[156;157] newwindow=[156;520000]
00:28 174135 174k 0 0 4900183 (2) 10 (501,2485) 0.181 Bb6xe3 Bd2xe3 Qg8-e6 Kh1-h
2 Nd7-b6 Ra1-f1 Nf6-d7 c3-c4 Qe6-d6 c4-c5 Qd6xd3 c5xb6 Qd3xe4
++ g8-e6 procnr=1 terug=182 org=[181;182] newwindow=[181;520000]
00:35 175150 175k 0 0 6261620 (2) 10 (615,2979) 0.214 Qg8-e6 Kh1-h2 c6-c5 a2-a3
c5xb4 a3xb4 Qe6-c6 Ra1-f1 Bb6xe3 Rf3xe3 a7-a6
01:09 178349 178k 0 0 12343547 (2) 11 (1125,5422) 0.666 Qg8-e6 g3-g4 h7-h5 g4-g5
Nf6-e8 Ne3-f5 Bb6-d8 Bd2-e3 Ne8-d6 Ra1-g1 Nd6xf5 e4xf5 Qe6xa2
02:02 180269 180k 0 0 22041544 (2) 12 (1575,7748) 0.480 Qg8-e6 Kh1-h2 c6-c5 a2-a
3 c5-c4 Ne3xc4 Nf6xe4 a3-a4 Ne4xd2 Nc4xd2 Nd7-f6 Nd2-c4 e5-e4 Ra1-e1 Bb6-c7
++ c6-c5 procnr=1 terug=481 org=[480;481] newwindow=[480;520000]
03:05 179813 180k 0 0 33270915 (2) 12 (1813,8858) 0.586 c6-c5 b4xc5 Nd7xc5 Rf3xf
6 Qg8xg3 Rf6-f8 Kb8-c7 Ne3-d5 Kc7-d6 Nd5xb6 Qg3xh3 Kh1-g1 Qh3-g3 Kg1-h1 a7xb6 Ra
1-b1 Qg3-h3 Kh1-g1 Qh3xd3 Rf8-d8 Nc5-d7
04:40 181748 182k 0 0 51009645 (2) 13 (1999,9989) 0.586 c6-c5 b4xc5 Nd7xc5 Rf3xf
6 Qg8xg3 Rf6-f8 Kb8-c7 Ne3-d5 Kc7-d6 Nd5xb6 Qg3xh3 Kh1-g1 Qh3-g3 Kg1-h1 a7xb6 Ra
1-b1 Qg3-h3 Kh1-g1 Qh3xd3 Rf8-d8 Nc5-d7
++ g8-e6 procnr=1 terug=587 org=[586;587] newwindow=[586;520000]
06:15 180801 181k 0 0 67928953 (2) 13 (2218,11165) 0.615 Qg8-e6 g3-g4 c6-c5 g4-g
5 Nf6-e8 a2-a3 Bb6-d8 Ne3-f5 Ne8-d6 Bd2-e3 Nd6-b5 Rf3-g3 c5-c4
Might be it goes c5 again at ply 14. Dunno.
anyway, taking on e3 looks dumb.
>On April 14, 2003 at 03:44:07, martin fierz wrote:
>
>>On April 13, 2003 at 15:04:53, Jim Monaghan wrote:
>>
>>>On April 13, 2003 at 06:55:48, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>Movei got QN vs RRPP and lost the game.
>>>>
>>>>It seems clear to me that after 38...Qe8 black is lost but I suspect that the
>>>>losing error was earlier.
>>>>
>>>>I will be happy to hear some comments about the game.
>>>
>>>Hi Uri,
>>>
>>>I think a strategical mistake occured here:
>>>
>>>[D]1k4q1/pp1n3p/1bp2n2/4p3/1P2P3/2PPNRPP/P2B4/R6K b - -
>>>
>>>28... Ne8 does not further Black's position. I think 28... Bxe3! is much
>>>stronger. The WN soon becomes a powerhouse on the white squares as the pawn play
>>>on the queenside developed resulting in a fine square on d5 where it surveyed
>>>the board. Meanwhile Black's knights had no squares or targets. Play could
>>>develop like this:
>>>
>>>
>>>29. Bxe3 Qe6 {attacking the h-pawn}
>>>30. Kg2 b6 {preparing c6-c5}
>>>31. Rf2 Qd6 (focusing on the weak d-pawn}
>>>32. Rd2 c5 {continuing the attack}
>>>33. bxc5 Nxc5 {again hitting the weakling}
>>>34. Rad1 Kb7
>>>
>>>White looks tied up and his game lacks life. Black's Q and 2Ns should co-operate
>>>well together. White didn't get the f-file play or the WN at d5 as in the game.
>>>My feeling is that Black will prevail.
>>
>>i agree with your idea - after Bxe3 white has very little going for himself.
>>once black consolidates, the game should be over.
>>
>>cheers
>> martin
>
>
>I still did not analyze Bxe3 but I like movei's move after deeper search that it
>did not get in the game(c5).
>
>black gets the intiative and shredder and Fritz agree that the score is
>improving every iteration at depth>=11 but do not agree about the right reply of
>black against bxc5:
>
>
>New game
>[D]1k4q1/pp1n3p/1b3n2/2p1p3/1P2P3/2PPNRPP/P2B4/R6K w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Shredder 7.04:
>
>2.Rxf6 Nxf6 3.bxc5 Qxg3 4.cxb6 Qxh3+ 5.Kg1
> -+ (-3.09) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00
>2.Rxf6 Nxf6 3.bxc5 Bxc5
> -+ (-3.65) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
>2.Rxf6 Nxf6 3.bxc5 Bxc5
> -+ (-3.65) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
>2.bxc5 Qc4 3.dxc4 h5
> µ (-1.19) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qg6 4.g4 Nxg4 5.hxg4 Qh5+ 6.gxh5
> µ (-1.19) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nd5
> µ (-1.29) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qg6 4.g4 Nxg4 5.hxg4 Qh5+ 6.gxh5
> µ (-1.19) Depth: 3/7 00:00:00
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.a4 Qc4
> µ (-1.18) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.a4 Qc6 5.Kh2
> µ (-1.11) Depth: 5/9 00:00:00
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.g4 Ka8 5.a4
> µ (-1.08) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 11kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Ba3 4.g4 Bb2 5.Ne7 Qe6
> µ (-1.07) Depth: 7/15 00:00:00 32kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Ka8 4.Kh2 Nxe4 5.dxe4 Qxg3+ 6.Nxg3
> µ (-1.01) Depth: 8/16 00:00:00 107kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.Kh2 h5 5.a4 Nb6
> µ (-0.97) Depth: 9/23 00:00:01 230kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.g4 Qb6 5.Bc1 Qa5 6.Bb2
> µ (-1.14) Depth: 10/26 00:00:03 452kN
>2.a3 Qe6 3.Kh2 cxb4 4.axb4 Bxe3 5.Bxe3 Ng4+ 6.hxg4 Qh6+ 7.Bxh6
> µ (-1.13) Depth: 10/26 00:00:04 753kN
>2.a3 Qb3 3.Rf5 cxb4 4.Rxf6 Nxf6 5.cxb4
> µ (-1.13) Depth: 10/26 00:00:06 998kN
>2.a3 Qb3 3.Raf1 Qa2 4.Bc1 cxb4 5.axb4 Qe2 6.Nd5 Nxd5 7.exd5 Kc7 8.Bg5 Kd6
> µ (-1.30) Depth: 11/29 00:00:09 1662kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5
> µ (-1.29) Depth: 11/29 00:00:10 1790kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.c4 Qc6 5.a4 Nf8 6.Bg5 N6d7 7.Kh2 Ne6
> µ (-1.08) Depth: 11/29 00:00:12 2177kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.Bg5 h5 5.Kg2 Qb6 6.Bc1 Qa5 7.Bb2
> µ (-1.18) Depth: 12/31 00:00:24 4150kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.g4 Qb6 5.Bc1 Qa5 6.Bd2 Qa4 7.d4 Nxe4 8.Rb1
> µ (-1.21) Depth: 13/33 00:00:42 7495kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.c4 Qc6 5.Bg5 Ne8 6.Rd1 Qa6 7.Ra1 Qg6 8.h4 Nd6
> µ (-1.35) Depth: 14/34 00:01:43 14484kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.c4 Qc6 5.a4 Qb6 6.Raf1 Qb2 7.Bg5 Qc2 8.a5 Qa2 9.Ng7 Ng8
> µ (-1.39) Depth: 15/36 00:03:58 29374kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 Qe6 4.c4 Qc6 5.Bg5 Nxe4 6.dxe4 Qxe4 7.Raf1 Qxc4 8.Rd1 Qxa2
>9.Rfd3 Qe6
> -+ (-1.51) Depth: 16/40 00:08:25 67523kN
>
>(Blass, Tel-Aviv 14.04.2003)
>New game
>1k4q1/pp1n3p/1b3n2/2p1p3/1P2P3/2PPNRPP/P2B4/R6K w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Fritz 8:
>
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 Qf7 5.a3 Kc7
> = (-0.25) Depth: 7/18 00:00:00 36kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 b5 5.Bh6 Qf7 6.Bg7
> = (-0.25) Depth: 8/20 00:00:00 99kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 Kc7 5.a4 Qb3 6.a5 b5
> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 9/26 00:00:00 250kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 Kc7 5.Be3 Bxe3 6.Nxe3 b6 7.Nf5
> ³ (-0.31) Depth: 10/27 00:00:01 696kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 Kc7 5.Be3 Bxe3 6.Nxe3 Qe6 7.Nf5 Qb6 8.Rf2
> ³ (-0.28) Depth: 11/38 00:00:05 2124kN
>2.bxc5 Bxc5 3.Nf5 h5 4.Kg2 Kc7 5.Be3 Bxe3 6.Nxe3 Qe6 7.Nf5 Nc5 8.Kf1 Nfxe4
>9.dxe4 Qc4+
> ³ (-0.41) Depth: 12/37 00:00:16 6754kN
>2.bxc5--
> ³ (-0.69) Depth: 13/41 00:01:30 39810kN
>2.bxc5 Nxc5 3.Rxf6
> ³ (-0.69) Depth: 13/43 00:01:34 41569kN
>2.bxc5--
> µ (-0.97) Depth: 14/41 00:05:12 141221kN
>2.bxc5 Nxc5 3.Rxf6
> µ (-0.97) Depth: 14/47 00:05:31 150024kN
>2.bxc5 Nxc5 3.Rxf6 Qxg3 4.Rf8+ Kc7 5.Nd5+ Kd6 6.Rf6+ Ne6 7.d4 Qxh3+ 8.Kg1 exd4
>9.Nxb6 Qg3+ 10.Kh1
> µ (-1.00) Depth: 15/45 00:14:43 404036kN
>
>(Blass, Tel-Aviv 14.04.2003)
>
>Uri
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