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Subject: Re: Null move question

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 00:44:06 08/02/03

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On August 01, 2003 at 22:45:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 01, 2003 at 05:09:59, Tony Werten wrote:
>
>>On July 31, 2003 at 18:15:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 31, 2003 at 14:23:34, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 30, 2003 at 17:18:12, Rick Bischoff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>a. at depth 3- hash table is empty for this position.  alpha = -INF, beta = +INF
>>>>>>>a. all requirements for null move are met
>>>>>>>a. makes null move:  int e = -alphabeta(depth - 3, -beta, -beta +1);
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>b. now we are at depth 0, alpha = -INF, beta = -INF + 1
>>>>>>>b. we call quies(alpha, beta)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>c.  e = static eval is, oh say, 1.
>>>>>>>c.  e >= beta, return beta
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>b. store this position in the hash table as -INF + 1, exact, depth = 0, return
>>>>>>>-INF + 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is _way_ wrong.  How can it be "exact"???  It is impossible for the
>>>>>>search to return valid scores outside alpha/beta window as defined at the
>>>>>>root.  If you are returning an "edge" then it must be an upper or lower
>>>>>>edge, not an exact score.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, I know it is wrong-- which is why I was asking the question to begin with
>>>>>:-) What I do know is store anything quies returns as exact-- but you are
>>>>>telling me I can't do that, right?  (Forgive my ignorance!)
>>>>
>>>>You are correct (despite what the others say), but only if you use the failsoft
>>>>version of alphabeta.
>>>>
>>>>Tony
>>>
>>>I don't see how he can be correct even with failsoft.  If you get a score
>>>outside alpha/beta it is _never_ an exact score, it will only be a bound.
>>
>>No it isn't. If you evaluate and take a beta cutoff, the evaluationscore is
>>still exact, has nothing to do with bounds.
>
>Never heard of "lazy evaluation?"

AFAIK lazy eval isn't part of alphabeta.

Tony

>
>
>>
>>If you evaluate below beta then there are 2 possibilities. In the end, best
>>score didn't improve, score is still eval, and eval is exact.
>>Second, bestscore did improve, must have been by search, so read from start, but
>>now 1 ply deeper.
>>
>>Tony



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