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Subject: Re: Null move question

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:45:11 08/01/03

Go up one level in this thread


On August 01, 2003 at 05:09:59, Tony Werten wrote:

>On July 31, 2003 at 18:15:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 31, 2003 at 14:23:34, Tony Werten wrote:
>>
>>>On July 30, 2003 at 17:18:12, Rick Bischoff wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>a. at depth 3- hash table is empty for this position.  alpha = -INF, beta = +INF
>>>>>>a. all requirements for null move are met
>>>>>>a. makes null move:  int e = -alphabeta(depth - 3, -beta, -beta +1);
>>>>>>
>>>>>>b. now we are at depth 0, alpha = -INF, beta = -INF + 1
>>>>>>b. we call quies(alpha, beta)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>c.  e = static eval is, oh say, 1.
>>>>>>c.  e >= beta, return beta
>>>>>>
>>>>>>b. store this position in the hash table as -INF + 1, exact, depth = 0, return
>>>>>>-INF + 1
>>>>>
>>>>>This is _way_ wrong.  How can it be "exact"???  It is impossible for the
>>>>>search to return valid scores outside alpha/beta window as defined at the
>>>>>root.  If you are returning an "edge" then it must be an upper or lower
>>>>>edge, not an exact score.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, I know it is wrong-- which is why I was asking the question to begin with
>>>>:-) What I do know is store anything quies returns as exact-- but you are
>>>>telling me I can't do that, right?  (Forgive my ignorance!)
>>>
>>>You are correct (despite what the others say), but only if you use the failsoft
>>>version of alphabeta.
>>>
>>>Tony
>>
>>I don't see how he can be correct even with failsoft.  If you get a score
>>outside alpha/beta it is _never_ an exact score, it will only be a bound.
>
>No it isn't. If you evaluate and take a beta cutoff, the evaluationscore is
>still exact, has nothing to do with bounds.

Never heard of "lazy evaluation?"


>
>If you evaluate below beta then there are 2 possibilities. In the end, best
>score didn't improve, score is still eval, and eval is exact.
>Second, bestscore did improve, must have been by search, so read from start, but
>now 1 ply deeper.
>
>Tony



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