Computer Chess Club Archives




Subject: Re: Open letter by Eugenio Castillo (ELChinito team) ... What you missed

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 12:21:59 08/28/04

Go up one level in this thread

On August 28, 2004 at 13:10:53, Gerd Isenberg wrote:

>On August 28, 2004 at 12:57:19, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>On August 28, 2004 at 11:44:30, Gerd Isenberg wrote:
>>>On August 28, 2004 at 10:23:53, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>>>>Hi there,
>>>>Eugenio sent us the following open letter.
>>>>The letter is public on Arena webpages (News-Ticker).
>>>>Eugenio wrote:
>>>>"I've used crafty source to implement my own program ElChinito.
>>>>My public and sincere apologize to Bob Hyatt not to mention that in ElChinito's
>>>>readme file and copyright notes and did not ask consequently for permission. I
>>>>will ensure that ElChinito is not longer public available for download and plays
>>>>any public tournaments.
>>>>I've inform ICGA and French Computer Chess Association about this issue to
>>>>accept their decision, and discalificate Chinito from the played events.
>>>>My apologize to Frank Q. for the damages caused.
>>>>My apologize to any one of the tester and downloaders of Arena.
>>>>Eugenio Castillo."
>>>My respect to Eugenio Castillo for his late apology.
>>>It seems that he had a hard time and a long fight to decide so.
>>>It was a severe offence of Eugenio, i understand that routines like NextMove
>>>have another quality than some cray like bitscan routines or moveInput.
>>>Eugenio obviously used Crafty framework as a toolbox for the bitboard
>>>infrastructure and parts of move generation and even minor parts of eval. He
>>>was, probably due his naivety, not fully aware of the cloning issue or did
>>>repress it in some way, after receiving no answer from Bob after some tries.
>>>Didn't Dann Corbit mention Eugenio mailed Bob about that issue, but Bob didn't
>>>receive for what reasons ever?
>>>It is difficult to quantify for me, but it seems that most of ElChinitos
>>>strength was not based on Crafty but on Eugenio's own search and most parts of
>>>it's evaluation.
>>>So i respect his decision to don't make ElChinito open source and i suggest to
>>>give ElChinito a second chance after some time, until Eugenio assures that no
>>>more parts of crafty are inside - IMHO.
>>This way you cant help a collegue! You do the same, already Frank Q did. You try
>>to blame those who were cheated. This is indecent.
>Was that really an insult from my side?

Yes! I will show you here below.

>I was a bit harsh, but i asked some questions and was only aware of the posted
>assembly at that time.

Gert, in science talking about witchhunt is like crazy! You say you asked
questions. Refuted! Because if you are NOT experienced enough then ask questions
but dont insult with such ugly dirt! Gert, because you couldn't follow the
debate, that doesn't justify that you insinuate that some noble man might be
involved/interested in witchhunts. Idont know your profession but say you are an
engineer. Now you build bridges. And for a particular question you make a
qualified analysis where you showed that someone else was cheating with his
data. Would that be allowed if I then came and called you involved in
witchhunting just because I'm angry and I cant understand why suddenly someone
is attacking a friend of mine?

>I asked "Did i missed something?"
>I asked "BTW. Is it legal to disassembly others executables?"

Refuted. Dont play naive. If you
asked if you missed something that doesn't allow or justify your insult!

>>A guy who committed fraud stated that he had contacted Bob, Frank said, several
>>times, and who said that Bob didn't answer (!!), but Bob explained that he had
>>never received a request by Castillo.
>>Do you, Gerd, now want to put Bob and Castillo on equal levels.
>I simply believe both in that issue.

What a hoax!!! I cant believe it that you are so premature. Of course a man
commiting fraud is NOT in the same boat with Bob. Ah, now I see a possible link
with you and Vincent. Fine loyalty for other computerchess collegues. But for a
multi time Wch you have no respect?

>What is the reason that Dann Corbit was involved?

I tell you. He was as confused as you were. He thought for a longer moment that
he could hope that Castillo could be whitewashed. He didn't answer me other than
saying that I didn't understand his message. But I understood it well. The whole
Bob story is of no value for the debate because Castillo committed the fraud if
Bob answered in time or NOT. Castillo was obliged to include a mention of Bob's
Crafty with or without Bob's permission. Man, do we have to debate now Adam &
Eve questions. It's incredible.

As you could see even Bob's late Christian excuses for the programmer was
meaningless because it's NOT Bob who's deciding if it was fraud or not. The
not-mention of Crafty is identical with fraud! Period.
No matter if Bob is angry or a Saint...

>>I must honestly say that you can forget all about a rehabilitation in this case.
>>I do also feel much sorrow that Frank Q and also you insulted Paul H here in CCC
>>of something like witchhunt.
>My reply to Paul Hunter:
>"Thanks for clarifying this again.
>So the executable contained a symbol map.
>Yes, witch hunting really came in my mind too."
>"My apologies to you."

Yes, I saw that and it was a fair message. But now you continue with the message
to Quisinsky which is again the try to exculpate them. The following paragraphe
is perhaps not so known to you but my text doesn't imply that you didn't
apologize to Paul. It means, sorry that I have to tell you, but you asked for
it, that you should stay on the level of apologizing after that unbelievable
insult of withhunting. The same is for Quisinsky. It's morally odd to see you
two now in the attack position so short after your witchhunt allegation. Was
that understandable now? Please show some respect here. I think I could be both
your father and you simply dont want to listen although you made such a grave

Honestly Gert, I wouldn't have written anything at all if Quisinsky wouldn't
have behaved here as if he just had made a typo or such petitesse. This is an
outrage scandal for the whole computerchess family and that is no occasion of
making jokes or playing naive.

Let me finally specify. Other than the above you didn't do anything wrong. I see
you desperate try to show solidarity with a collegue. That honors you, Gert. But
that here is such a scandal that we shouldn't take it lightly. Bob certainly has
a somewhat "verklärte" view on these things because he has seen so many
possibilities to cheat and he was himself unfairly attacked for alleged
cheating. But look, he didn't doubt the work by Paul H for a second.

>>I mean you should apologize instead of publishing
>>such utter nonsense in your actual message. I mean is this scene so rotten dirty
>>that you cant feel what this is dirty in your message?

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