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Subject: Re: singular extension

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:11:35 09/15/04

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On September 15, 2004 at 14:48:51, Gerd Isenberg wrote:

>On September 15, 2004 at 12:17:14, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 15, 2004 at 09:53:53, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Anyone know of some code somewhere that implements
>>>at least part (or all) of the originally described
>>>singular extension and/or any modifications to it that
>>>have proven worthwhile (if any)?
>>>
>>>I am curious what mediocre (or better) results people
>>>have gotten with singular extension. Originally Anantharaman
>>>hypothesized that it wouldn't be good at the slower
>>>speeds of most programs at the time and would require
>>>fast speeds to show effect.  Has this proven true or
>>>false in the intervening 15 years?
>>>
>>>Is singular extension now generally discredited as a
>>>non-reproducible singularity in and of itself?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Stuart
>>
>>
>>It worked in Cray Blitz for the last two years it competed.  How much it
>>improves overall chess skill is debatable.  Early on the DB guys claimed very
>>significant improvements.  Later more thorough testing showed that there was
>>definitely an improvement, but not as large as originally thought.
>>
>>I have not really spent a lot of time doing this in Crafty although there is a
>>SE version roaming around that I released, but it didn't do SE like the DB guys
>>did.  Their implementation is not a 2 week deal.  Expect to spend a year getting
>>it working as they did, if not more.
>>
>>Some commercial programs use variants.  IE Wchess used the PV-singular part of
>>singular extensions, but not the fail-high part the DB guys defined.
>
>There are so many applications of a reduced/modified pre-search to gain more
>informations for better move sorting, pruning, extensions and reductions.
>
>1. Internal iterative deepening
>2. Nullmove oberservation or pre-verification
>3. Looking for singularity
>4. Looking for multiple beta cuts
>
>I wonder whether there is an approach to combine a few of them on cut-nodes.

Hsu's paper defined singular extensiosn for PV nodes and CUT nodes.  His paper
said "we have found no useful definition for a singular move at an ALL node
however.."


>
>Btw. considering minimal tree node types, pv-, cut- and all nodes
>(pv most left, cut successor from pv or all, all successor from cut)
>What information may we gain, for a cut node, where only one successor has to be
>searched in a minimal tree, if it behaves like an all node?

All I can immediately think of is that your move ordering is bad at that CUT
node, because by definition you only need to search 1 move at a CUT node, and
not even the best move, just one "good enough to produce a cutoff."

>E.g. if static eval <= alpha or even first move doesn't improve alpha?
>
>Thanks,
>Gerd



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