Author: David Dahlem
Date: 12:39:20 10/13/04
Go up one level in this thread
On October 13, 2004 at 13:18:53, George Tsavdaris wrote: >On October 13, 2004 at 10:03:43, David Dahlem wrote: > >>On October 13, 2004 at 09:27:50, Daniel Clausen wrote: >> >>>On October 13, 2004 at 09:04:40, David Dahlem wrote: >>> >>>[snip] >>> >>>>I repeat, humans use their brain to make their opening moves. They do not look >>>>at chess books during the game to make a move. Human memory is open to mistakes. >>>>Computers with opening books, on the other hand, do not think during the >>>>opening, they are picking moves from a list. >>> >>>I don't see your point here. If a GM decides to play the Spanish variation, he >>>simply remembers the moves "e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5" etc. So does the computer. >> >>Not true! The computer is not remembering anything. It is picking the moves from >>a list. It would be totally different if the computer had created the book based >>on its own "thinking". > > But humans don't make this also! Does Karjakin(an example) have created the >book moves he plays on his own thinking? No. He just read them somewhere and >studied them for many years so he just remembers them. The whole opening >knowledge from history or newer games, is available to him and he is taking >advantage of it. And then he just picks a move from a list that his brain >constructs. But a human picking a move from his brain is not the same as a computer picking a move from a file on the hard drive. Even though he may read and study for years, a human still has to think, remember, and decide what to play. Computers don't have to study and remember when they can just instantly pick a move from a list. Humans are not allowed to have a hard copy of opening moves to look at during games. Can't you see the difference? Regards Dave > > >>And a human has to make a "decision" whether the moves >>"e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5" are best or not, while a computer selects a move without >>thinking. :-) > > So what? Does the process that computers play Chess must be the same with that >of human? > Since in your example the human has a disadvantage by having to decide for >which move is best while computer don't, computer has also a huge advantage of >it's searching speed. Since it is million of times faster than human, should we >forbid it to search so fast? > > The abilities on some areas of computers are much bigger than that of >humans(huge opening databases, fast search, endgame tablebases), but the >opposite it's true also(pattern recognition, much more selective search, >experience). > If we take away some of computer's advantages why we should leave the human >advantages? And WHY WE SHOULD NOT TRY TO PLAY WITH THE HIGHER POSSIBLE STRENGTH >OF THE MACHINES AND TRY TO REDUCE IT"S STRENGTH? Do we afraid of something? > >> >>Regards >>Dave >> >>>You seem to say that with humans there are two phases: 1. read moves from books >>>2. recall them from their memory. Whereas computers only have one phase, and >>>you match it with phase 1 from humans. >>> >>>While I think it's useless to make such comparisons in general, it's pretty easy >>>to come up with two phases for computers too. Craftys 1st phase is: reading PGN >>>files. 2nd phase during the game is: recall them from its memory. >> >> >> >>> >>>Sargon
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