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Subject: Re: question to Prof Hyatt on environmental care.

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 14:03:42 01/25/05

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On January 25, 2005 at 16:53:03, Olaf Jenkner wrote:

>>
>>
>>but to store a 32 piece tablebase would be a lot 'smaller'.
>>
>>might  a 2.5 by 2.5 kilometre crystal  do the trick ?
>>
>>
>>duncan
>
>We have about 10^42 positions to store.
>The third root is 10^14.
>Take a 1000^3 km crystal. You must store 100000 positions
>at one millimeter. 100 at one micrometer. Maybe, the crystal was too
>big.
>
>Perhaps 99,999999% of the legal positions will never be
>necessary to compute the tree. Than we can take a smaller cube.

There is a huge difference between a 32 stone EGTB and calculating till the
bitter end.

What you refer to is having a say 10^30 hashtable and calculating say 10^31 in
order to play perfect.

It's very well possible that you can get optimal play (optimal defined as:
"winning in case position is won, and drawing in case you can get a draw". Not
as the optimal DTM which is major BS where majority doesn't care a shit about; a
win is a win) long before searching 10^43.

However please realize that storing 10^20 in hashtable means also that you will
see certain positions within that 10^20 a million times.

So the number of overwrites will be real huge from a single position. That means
obviously that you keep researching the same tree over and over again in all
kind of ways.

It's unlikely you'll have a perfect move ordering and it's unlikely that you can
optimal make profit from nullmove and hashtables.

So there always will be this unsureness when that happens.

What we do know from other games is that software even when playing near perfect
still lost to mankind, despite that certain openings already had been solved
simply to win/draw/loss.

Now that losing or winning from mankind is not interesting in this case, but
more interesting is that it indicates that despite nearly directly being in
EGTBs they still didn't play perfect.

If that will be the case in chess, we sure have a long way to go!

Vincent

>OJe




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