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Subject: Re: My thought on Hydra vs Adams Game 1. Yes c4! was a killer shot.

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:17:31 06/22/05

Go up one level in this thread


On June 21, 2005 at 23:00:37, Robin Smith wrote:

>On June 21, 2005 at 18:36:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 21, 2005 at 16:44:21, Torstein Hall wrote:
>>
>>>On June 21, 2005 at 15:30:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 21, 2005 at 14:19:44, Robin Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 21, 2005 at 14:11:23, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 21, 2005 at 14:04:37, Ted Summers wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>To sum it up " He played a drawish opening in a tactic way. " Not a good idea
>>>>>>>when computers are able to hang with the best and proving themself as better
>>>>>>>than humans in open tactical positions. However I still think GM Adams can pull
>>>>>>>it together and Win or Draw this match.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[D] r2q1rk1/1pp3pp/p2b4/nP1p1p1b/2PPn3/3B1N1P/P1QN1PP1/1RB1R1K1 b - - 0 17
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Having reached this position, we seemed to be watching the beginning of the end
>>>>>>>for Adams in the first game but hopefully not the match.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>C4! was a killer positional shot.
>>>>>
>>>>>c4 was a good move, but hardly a "killer".
>>>>>
>>>>>>It seems clear GM Adams missed this move when he played Na5.
>>>>>
>>>>>Perhaps Adams miissed it, but it hardly seems "clear", since Black is still OK
>>>>>afterwards. His loss happened later.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Robin
>>>>The problem here is that the kingside is already a bit open.  One does _not_, as
>>>>a human, allow the computer to open _both_ sides of the board in the same game.
>>>>It invites a debacle such as this.  Of course, he made a couple of tactical
>>>>errors around the point where the rook on C8 was hanging, but he was already in
>>>>the wrong kind of position...
>>>>
>>>>All the comps were suggesting the same moves as played by Hydra, so there was no
>>>>real surprises from the white side, just black making an error here, an error
>>>>there, before long he fell off the rim of the canyon.
>>>
>>>This is in my view far to general. Black was at least = uptil move 23.Be6
>>>[D]2rq1r1k/6pp/p2bB3/2p1Np1b/3Pn3/7P/P1Q2PP1/1RB1R1K1 b - - 0 23
>>
>>
>>Define "equal".  Here I am considering the important detail that white is a
>>computer, black is a human.  In that regard, black is _not_ equal up to move 23.
>
>By that logic Adams was already much worse after 1.e4 no matter what he did.
>Let's face it, Hydra is stronger. Adams will probably be under presure in every
>game where he has the black pieces.
>
>> In fact, I don't believe black is anywhere near equal.
>
>He is equal unless you use your "considering the important detail that white is
>a computer" logic.
>
>>He isn't lost, but he is far from equal and is at best fighting for a draw.
>
>>But in an open position.
>>And he just has no chance in that kind of position.
>
>He was under presure, yes. That is a far cry from "has no chance".
>
>>But I would take white anywhere along the way in that game, as a human playing
>>another human.  And by the way, any move after the "knight to the rim" move
>>finds white better IMHO.
>
>Your opinion is wrong, unless perhaps you mean that white had a very slight
>advantage. That is the norm in chess, by the way.
>
>>>Adams played 23...Rc7 while 23...cxd4 looks like it holds everything nicely
>>>together.
>>
>>Doesn't quite hold everything nicely together.  The comps were at about +1 here
>>already, went to +1.5 on the Rc7 move.
>
>Maybe Craqfty sees +1, but the top programs don't see anything near +1 until
>_after_ Rc7. Before Rc7 black was fine.
>
>>But then the next few moves were mostly
>>bad by black, turning this into a debacle.  But if there were not so many open
>>files, open diagonals, etc, black wouldn't have had to be worrying about tactics
>>all over the board.
>>
>>
>>
>>> One line could be 23...cxd4 24.Qxc8 Qf6 25.Qc4 Qxe5 26.Qa5 and black
>>>looks OK to me.
>>
>>But white looks better to me there.  Maybe not "winning better" but
>>"significantly better".
>
>Try "very slightly better". Adams played well until Rc7. Hydra is very strong
>and kept putting the presure on and finally Adams made a mistake.
>
>-Robin


Again, let me remind you that I qualified my response to "knowing this is a
computer vs human, black is exposing himself to difficulty."

I'd be fairly happy with either side against an equal human opponent.  But
against a computer, I want things blocked, not open.  e4 e5 is the wrong way to
block things up.  There are multiple options after e4 that avoid many of the
wide-open king-pawn type positions...

He's done the same thing again today.  f4 was the move I would play as white,
_unless_ I was playing a computer.  Before I would play f4, I would have to be
_certain_ that I can win from that point.  I would not want to leave the
computer playing on both sides of the board, with a pair of bishops, pair of
rooks and a queen still on the board.

So again, my comments were based not on pure chess, but on the opponent for
Adams...



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