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Subject: Re: Why SSDF list is the best

Author: m.d.hurd

Date: 02:44:02 07/17/05

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On July 17, 2005 at 05:22:47, Sandro Necchi wrote:

>I have been laughing a lot (maybe crying on the ignorance would have been more
>appropriate?)reading many wrong statements about testing and Elo lists.
>
>so, for those who are new and do not know, SSDF list is the best for the
>following reasons:
>
>1. They use 2 computers and the program complete with own book and ETG, with own
>gui and best setting as suggested by the programmer.
>2. They use long time controls (40/2h 20/1h; international level) only.
>3. They use the same hardware for all programs.
>4. They use a very wide range of programs and not only the new ones to get more
>reliable results.
>5. Ponder on and learning are activated.
>
>Now, even if some people do not agree, the use of own book is the best because
>that book has been developed specifically for that engine and in some cases the
>engine has been developed specifically on that book too. This means that the use
>of a different book and the same for all programs would damage or favor some
>programs over others. Even "neutral" books would do the same as they may include
>variations which are not "compatible" with some sophisticated programs and be OK
>for others.
>I know some people do not agre on this, but this is their problem...
>
>The use of a "std" gui again would favor some and damage others as well, so it
>is not advisable...
>
>The use of long time controls is the best to really check the max potentiality
>of a program. It is true that the hardware used by SSDF is not updated, but 2 or
>3 times faster hardware would not change much even if some programs may benefit
>a little more than others (a small Elo difference).
>
>Some people claim better programs against humans then computers. These are pure
>lies as if you play better you play better against anybody. These are more
>"commercial" statements than true ones...of course there is no relationship on
>Elo figures on the SSDF list with those against humans, but a stronger program
>here would do better against humans too. The problem is that in order to achive
>reliable results there is a need of very many games. A few game may be
>confusing.
>
>Thanks to the use of 2 computers one can also test against old program too. This
>may seems useless, but it is not.
>
>Since the goal of SSDF list is to tell how strong is a new program to use the
>best settings and learning is a must too because the user can use the same and
>would like to know how strong is that program with best settings etc...
>If some programs do not have learning features and/or good ones it is their
>problem so they have to be penalized on that. The use of these options would do
>this.
>
>So, anybody can test in a different way as they wish, but to claim that system
>is better or replacing the SSDF system is pure nonsense!
>
>Sandro

Hello Sandro

I would not disagree with most of your opinions above except number 2

>2. They use long time controls (40/2h 20/1h; international level) only.

This was probably necessary 20 years ago however computers are a lot faster
nowadays and therefore 40 moves in 40 minutes seems a reasonable speed to me. I
would have thought most users do not have the time to play a game at 40/2h.

Regards

Mike



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