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Subject: Re: Is Larry Kaufman Qualified to Say What programs are grandmasters?Yes

Author: Don Dailey

Date: 09:34:27 02/27/99

Go up one level in this thread


On February 27, 1999 at 11:15:59, Ted Hogan wrote:

>On February 27, 1999 at 08:02:59, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On February 27, 1999 at 07:35:03, odell hall wrote:
>>
>>>Hi CCC
>
>Hi,
>
>It is recognized that Micros are approximately IM strength and not Grandmaster !

I think the issue is how good the TOP micros are running on the very
latest hardware.  There is no doubt in my mind that the typical micro
program is not there yet.  Remember, there is a significant difference
between the top very few and the rest of the field.

But no matter what our personal opinions might be, there is clearly
an issue,  it's close enough to talk about.

I think it's hardly worth discussing however, for the very simple
reason that there is big fat grey line between Grandmaster and
those just under Grandmaster strength.  The line is so fat and
so grey that for a while we can all be right!

We could also revert to the discussion we had a few months back
where someone observes that if a computer can actually achieve
a GM title, then it has proven it's a grandmaster.  But it's
theoretically possible for any player to achieve this, even a
1500!  This is because achieving GM status is a probabilistic
thing.  This may be one of those things where it is more likely
that the sun will burn out or that your book will jump off the
table because a high percentage of the trillions of molecules all
decided to move in the same direction at the same moment, but it's
possible.

I am willing to accept the possibility that the very best micro's
are beginning to play like Grandmasters.  It was only a few years
ago when you could not buy a machine that even played 1500 level.
I remember very clearly when it seemed like a real issue whether
computers would even get close to master strength.  Many said this
would NEVER happen.  It went from wild enthusiasm (the Levy bet)
to cold reality, to enthusiasm again.


>BTW:)) Do you recall the Rebel vs. Anand match where Anand won the long time
>control games but lost the blitz games....it depends on all the variables...all
>I can tell you for sure is I cannot personally beat the top ten programs, though
>I enjoy watching them play against each other....amazingly strong !
>
>Take care !

Remember that we are not talking about computers of Anands strength
either,  he is still MUCH stronger than the weak Grandmaster we are
talking about.  The question is "have the top micro's touched the
Grandmaster barrier yet."   Even if they have, they have a lot of
distance to cover to reach Anand's level.   I think this distance
will be covered relativily quickly however, in just a few years.

- Don

>>>  I have been thinking for quite sometime now, why the extreme skeptism when the
>>>question of computers being grandmaster strength is discussed?  What more
>>>evidence does anyone need, other than the esteemed International Master Larry
>>>Kaufman? Certainly a Man who has regulary competed against Grandmasters, and who
>>>also has a computer chess backround would be by far the most qualified person to
>>>know.  Surely his judgements are based in his own personal expierence playing
>>>programs. Chess programmers Certainly have alot of knowledge about computers and
>>>how computers play chess and ofcourse have much valuable information to offer,
>>>however when it comes to the question of strength I would trust the judgement of
>>>a average U.S. Master over any programmer. I would like some feedback on this?
>>
>>IM Larry Kaufman is the most qualified person I know of to judge if computer
>>programs are now of grandmaster strength. Not only is IM Larry Kaufman a
>>International Master since 1980, IM Larry Kaufman work on the first chess
>>program to compete in tournaments against humans, MacHack. IM Larry Kaufman has
>>been there from the start, and if someone is better qualified to judge how
>>strong computer programs are today, please give me there name.
>>
>>Mark Young



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