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Subject: Re: zobrist hashing

Author: vitor

Date: 16:33:55 05/28/99

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On May 28, 1999 at 18:50:06, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On May 28, 1999 at 18:34:18, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>
>>On May 28, 1999 at 18:07:17, vitor wrote:
>>
>>>as far as i can tell, zobrist hashing seems to be an imperfect(but fast) hashing
>>>scheme, meaning it is possible that your program will mistake position X as
>>>position Y.
>>>
>>>so my question is:
>>>is zobrist hashing the current standard in computer chess? is it just an
>>>accepted risk or are there any perfect hashing schemes that are used?
>>
>>Yes, it is the current standard... and an accepted risk.  That risk can be
>>minimized by using a large enough key.  64 bits is pretty normal today, though
>>some people use 32+tricks, or 48+tricks.  (Tricks like checking the best move to
>>make sure it's legal in the position, which is probably a good idea in any
>>event. :-)  I don't know of anyone using a perfect hashing scheme for a playing
>>program, but this doesn't mean it isn't possible.
>For a perfect hashing scheme, the width of the key will have to be log2(possible
>positions) bits wide.  We could use it as our mapping to all possible chess
>positions.  If anybody finds one, please let me know. ;-)
>
>BTW, that would be one whopper of a hash table!

even with a simple position represention of 256 bits, we would have perfect
hashing that is about 4 times more expensive (both memory and speed-wise) than a
64bit zobrist. maybe perfection for $4 is too much when you can get good enough
for $1.




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