Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Brute force base of good game. True or not true?

Author: Claudio A. Amorim

Date: 06:43:18 09/08/99

Go up one level in this thread


On September 07, 1999 at 10:41:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 07, 1999 at 09:36:03, Claudio A. Amorim wrote:
>
>>On September 07, 1999 at 06:40:02, leonid wrote:
>>
>>>Brute force search is the base of good chess game. True or not true?
>>
>>Hi, Leonid,
>>
>>Deep Blue team think so, but I think they're far to prove it. In fact, Deep
>>Blue's game has not a distinctive character, except being extremly efficient. on
>>handling highly unbalanced positions. The top microcomputer programs (like Rebel
>>and Hiarcs), albeit much slower, display much more chess knowlegde than Deep
>>Blue. They surely handle positional play much better.
>>Brute force, in computer chess, is one of the means to achieve good results, but
>>must be mixed with other techniques, to deliver great chess.
>>Imagine Deep Blue without an openings book or a tablebase... It would play as
>>badly as any club player.
>
>
>Your last sentence it complete hogwash.
Do you allways use this kind of vocabulary to disagree with, or correct someone?
I'm not a native speaker, as you can see, but "hogwash" is surely a silly word
to express "plain wrong". You bring me a new point to think about, but there's
no need to be unkind, ok?

DB is just like any other program
>that uses tablebases...  they are only used in a relatively small percentage
>of the games, in only a small percentage of the moves in those games where they
>are used.  In a couple of games, Kasparov took DB out of book on move 2.  It
>appears to me that it played just fine, judging by the match result against
>him.
>
>The rest of your post has little technical merit, as I know of nothing that
>suggests that other programs "display much more chess knowledge".

Just see the games. If you like chess, yoy'll agree. Anyway, I never said brute
force isn't important. I just say it's only a technique, among others, that make
a program really nice.

>>When was the last time _another_ program beat Kasparov at 40/2 in a single >>game, much less in a match?

When was the last time Kasparov played so badly and frightened as he did in that
match? The last game, for instance (I mean the Caro-Kan), was a shame. Crafty,
Hiarcs, Rebel, Fritz and Chessmaster, all would have won, after Kasparov's
blunder in the opening. In other games, Rebel 9 suggests interesting
improvements for both sides, even in tournment time analysis. And we have also
the clear draw Kasparov blundered away (Qe3+, if I remember well), when he
resigned that Ruy Lopez...
>
>You can't play _badly_ and pull that off.

Deep Blue's play in efficient, but aesthetically unpleasant. As I said, it has
no distinctive character.
>>
Sorry for the "hogwash" talk. Since I am new on the field, I have still a lot to
learn.

Regards,

Cláudio.






This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.