Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Fritz, Hiarcs... CB Updates are NOT broken

Author: Ratko V Tomic

Date: 10:02:27 10/10/99

Go up one level in this thread


> My god, you can turn of all learning if you play against the program
> and do want to get different openings. What is your problem ?

Time. Why every time it gets out of the book I have to wait minutes to
have it go through identical calculation with the identical result
it did earlier? Some people have other work to do, it takes enough
time to play chess as it is, to have to _needlessly_ wait (I don't
mind waiting if it is the first time calculating a position).

The problem is that the program manufacturers have gotten caught up so much in
getting an edge in the mindless machine-machine autoplay, they forgot the
customer, and thus have designed the "learning" feature which is well suited for
quickly locking in into a "killer line" against another program and (due to the
lack of common sense in the testing procedure) winning identical game ten times
against a program which doesn't have this kind of "learning."

Since human player doesn't fall for (and doesn't appreciate someone even trying
out) such idiotic tricks, the feature is not only useless but outright contrary
to the customer's convenience. He can either play the same line ad infinitum
(with "learning" on) or waste time waiting for mindless repetition of the
identical calculation.

It would be enough to enable this kind of "learning" in machine-machine autoplay
only, and make it do a common-sensical user oriented learning otherwise, i.e.
all moves, evaluations & thinking times are remembered so it never calculates
the same thing over (user may wish to choose whether, when playing at same level
in the same position next time, s/he wants the earlier computed move played
instantly or deepened, for the duration appropriate to a given level). The game
result should not skew the odds of an opening, so it can keep the variety for
users convenience. The only way the learning should affect future choices is
that if in a previous game the program has obtained negative evaluation at some
point (regardless of the final game result, which may be due to completely
unrelated causes far away from this evaluation), it should back off one
(preferably) or two moves (at most) and pick something else. But it certainly
should not drop the whole Sicilian or French, or even a particular line, just
because it lost few games in that (perfectly good) opening/line for completely
unrelated reasons well beyond the opening.

So it's the publicizing of mindless machine-machine autoplay results in
combination with the short term sales-folk cheap gimmick mentality prevailing
among the program manufacters that has resulted in shunting the customer's time
and convenience out of the loop. It will be enough for one leading program to
have a usable customer oriented learning for others to snap out of the loop they
caught themselves in. That cycle occurs with other software and other products
all the time, it will happen here. The discussion on the subject will only help
speed up the inevitable.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.