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Subject: Re: The Bickering Debate

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:18:48 10/31/99

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On October 31, 1999 at 02:08:57, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On October 30, 1999 at 12:04:18, Fernando Villegas wrote:
>
>>The long thread which is esentially a discussion between Bob H. and Ed S. has
>>something surrealistic in it. Bob is -or was- arguing that commercial guys does
>>not contribute to the field because they are secretive of his little tricks and
>>just like to make technical profit from non commercial guys ideas; Ed is saying
>>-or said- that's not really true, as much this and that technique was delivered
>>by this or that commercial programmer.
>>Bob is the purest case of non commercial, not money interested reasercher and
>>his child Crafty the paradigm of the freeware world; Ed is the purest case of
>>professional commercial progammer, enterily dedicated to that since ever, with
>>the best developed commercial site, constant attention to his customers, etc,
>>etc. How guys so opposed in needs, interest and position in life can even meet
>>in a common ground to share even a definition about what is the issue under
>>discussion?
>>Ed earns a life selling his products and so he should be a fool to give his
>>relatives advantages to his competence; the esence of his work is to keep his
>>trade secrets the longest time he can. Bob is a scientist that earns his life
>>teaching and researching in an university; the esence of his work is becoming
>>public the soon as possible to get recognition from his peers and help his field
>>to give another step.
>>So clearly they cannot cut a deal even it such thing appears to happen due to
>>good manners and a mutual desire to end the discussion with some kind of
>>diplomatic uinderstanding. They even does not understand in the same way what is
>>a new idea. For Bob is just matter of who was the guy that first wrote about the
>>discussed issue in a scientific magazine; for Ed is a matter of who was the guy
>>that put the idea to work in an efficient way. The same with colaboration; for
>>Bob, as scientist, is about sharing concepts and discoveries; for Ed, as a
>>commercial guy, is a mater of cooperation for mutual -not universal- benefice.
>>Ed is prepared to share his ideas with Theron because both of them are joined in
>>a common commercial adventure; as much as he does so, he surely see himself as a
>>man that cooperates after all for the advancement of the field. For Bob nothing
>>less than to communicate his thought to the entire world is enough.
>>Who is right' Nobody is. They are different persons in differents situations,
>>each of them doing his best and producing universal benefice in dfferent ways,
>>one direct, the other more indirect. And we need both approachs. What a
>>scientist can get in the atmosphere of university campus probably concnetrates
>>in the area of pure research; what a commercial technics can gets the better is
>>getting general ideas works better and better. Sooner or later both ways meets
>>and the entire field jump o a higher level.
>>Fernando
>
>I don't think I would behave different if Rebel wasn't a commercial program
>regarding contributions. For me the item of competing would remain decisive.
>
>Ed


My only comment would be:

  "thank goodness that Newell, Shaw and Simon, I.A. Goode, Richard Greenblatt,
   Slate/Atkins, Thompson, Truscott, Kozdrowicki, Campbell, Marsland, Hsu,
   Beal, Nalimov, Hienz, Cracraft, Donninger, Myself, Nelson, Berliner, Goetsch,
   Daily, Kaufman, Feldman, ...  enough already ...  didn't agree with you.
   Imagine where computer chess would be today if _they_ had decided that
   'the item of competing would remain decisive...'"

I don't even want to think about it...

I understand limited-duration secrecy.  But not 'forever'.  I've been giving
source away forever.  There is a guy on ICC (bigblue) that is running a copy
of blitz he got from me in 1978, although he has modified it over the years so
that it is hardly 'blitz' any longer.  But it got _him_ started.



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