Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 18:09:04 11/07/99
Go up one level in this thread
On November 07, 1999 at 17:55:42, odell hall wrote: >On November 07, 1999 at 17:17:18, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 07, 1999 at 15:58:54, odell hall wrote: >> >>>On November 07, 1999 at 10:32:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On November 07, 1999 at 03:23:21, Lawrence S. Tamarkin wrote: >>>> >>>>>Bob, On the other hand, you could be like Bobby Fischer when asked for his list >>>>>of the 10 greatest player's, he was asked why he hadn't included himself on this >>>>>list; the answer of course was that he would best any of them, so felt it would >>>>>take away a placing of one of his selected 10:) >>>>> >>>>>Larry T >>>> >>>> >>>>Nah... I just had the opportunity to get to know everyone on my "list" >>>>pretty well (excepting Greenblatt although I talked to him several times >>>>by phone). They are head-and-shoulders above me or anyone else I could >>>>think of. :) >>> >>> >>> If they are "head and shoulders" above everyone then why haven't they produced >>>any quality chess programs in the last 15 years? (excluding ofcourse hsu) It >>>seems to me the people you list are more or less pioneers in computerchess, but >>>does this mean that they are the best? Because someone was first does this mean >>>that they are neccesarily the best? I think 1. Hsu 2. Lang 3. Jonothan Dekoning >>>(king engine) 3. Schroeder is more appropriate to the question. Or would you >>>mind educating us specifically on what makes these people you mentioned better >>>than others? >> >> >>Nothing other than the fact that they each _dominated_ computer chess when >>they were active _and_ they published details about what they did. >> >>Any other questions? >> >> >> > > Yes ofcourse!! Well didn't lang dominate computer chess in his day? As >well as schoeder!! I am sure I am leaving out a few others. What makes a good >chess programmer? Is it how strong his program is? Or that he was the first to >do something? Not trying to be antagonistic, I just want to understand the >reasons for your list. I notice you mention no micro programmers. > Lang may have dominated the micro programs.. but he _never_ dominated computer chess. The 'program to beat' went like this: 1960-1970 MacHack (Greenblatt) 1970-1977 chess x.x (slate) 1977-1979 chess x.x and belle (slate/thompson) 1980-1982 Belle/Chess x.x/Cray Blitz (slate, thompson, hyatt) 1983-1986 Cray Blitz 1987-present deep thought/deep blue (Hsu) No other programs were close during those time periods, if you talk about 'micro programs'. But as far as folks like "lang" go, how much have they _contributed_ to computer chess? _zero_. Slate wrote the 4.0 article in Chess Skill in Man and Machine, the article that became the blueprint for _every_ program written. Iterated search, hashing, killer moves, tip evaluation, etc. The other names I mentioned did the same. I look at who 'creates' ideas and then passes them along to others to be improved/modified/changed/etc. And I look at who produced _results_. It is difficult to argue with the history of computer chess back to the early 60's, as the data I gave above can be found in most any good book... > >> >> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On November 06, 1999 at 22:24:53, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 06, 1999 at 20:57:47, James Swafford wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 06, 1999 at 20:48:40, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On November 06, 1999 at 20:28:25, walter irvin wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> i wonder if there was a chess program and programmer hall of fame who whould be >>>>>>>>>there if there could only be 5 ??? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>1 genius >>>>>>>>>2 deep blue >>>>>>>>>3.hitec >>>>>>>>>4.fritz >>>>>>>>>5.cm series >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>on programmers >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Lang is main one that comes to mind any body have a suggestion if there could be >>>>>>>>>only 5 ?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The first three would have to be Richard Greenblatt, Dave Slate, and Ken >>>>>>>>Thompson. Nobody else comes close. Beyond that, it is wide open. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I think you are too modest, Bob. >>>>>>>Wasn't CB the first to win a state championship? >>>>>>>Mississippi? '83? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>James >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Mississippi '81. But that doesn't change my three names. All three were >>>>>>most important to the development of computer chess...
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