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Subject: Re: CMJ12S100 V CM6666 G/60 Game 5 score 1.5 - 3.5

Author: Chessfun

Date: 08:13:09 01/08/00

Go up one level in this thread


On January 08, 2000 at 09:09:21, Michael Cummings wrote:

>On January 08, 2000 at 08:29:59, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On January 08, 2000 at 07:28:11, Michael Cummings wrote:
>>
>>>On January 08, 2000 at 05:57:55, Chessfun wrote:
>>>
>
>>Correct another name.
>
>What Name was that ?
>
>
>>I got my CM6K in Nov 88.
>
>Nov 88, was CM6K even in twinkle in daddy's eyes 12 years ago ?
>
My apology for my type.

>>I am doing it not for the benefit of Mindscape.
>
>No one here tests for the benefit of mindscape, well I do not at least
>
>>I have not read it written by anyone other than yourself.
>
>I make these statements after careful considerations and testing.
>
>>Agreed, but my point was there are other opinions on it's strength and I
>>offered one wheras at that point you had offered none.
>
>On the net, I do not know any, but that is one, can you offer at least two more
>to back up your statements, other than opinions or sites which give an
>indication, but usually with very few samples of games.
>
I have no need to offer you any. It was an original point of yours to which I
showed you an opposite viewpoint. You are the one who made the original point
that and I quote;
"And it is already been said that CM6666 might not perform well at longer time
control."

To that I offered you an example of the opposite viewpoint;
"What games or claims is it you refer to exactly?. Quote from Shep's
"CM 6666  Shep  40/120 on 550 MHz and above; extraordinarily strong".

To which you replied;
"Its has been said, and my tests have gone to strengthen that statement."

So in fact what we have is your single viewpoint to which I showed you the one
posted and added to that my own and asked for your others.

>>I know one of them is SS10, whereas in my own testing it is not performing.
>
>As CM6666 is not testing to well with me
>
>>This is a view that is shared by some and disputed by others.
>
>But to take away the doubt, use two computers
>
You are telling me that in these 1000 games you used two computers and played
them all manually with CM6K, now we both know that this is a fabrication.
Aside from which I have 4 computers!! not 1. but to play 1000 games manually
is plain silly.

>>Please define serious or fun, not sure I said fun?
>
>Doing it for fun (doing it out of interest) Usually when you do it for interest,
>it is out of your enjoyment or fun to see what will happen.

The point was I didn't say it. You used the word fun when I had never written
it.

>
>>Then we differ in our experience.
>
>I have tests showing one way, only to repeat them to show something else. So I
>differ in my own experiences as well. Which is a different story.
>
>>Now you use the word interest, which I believe is what I said.
>>Then why not throw out your Rebel or any other program that currently has
>>no testing level benchmarks other than games posted, the same as CM6666.
>
>Chessmaster is different, Chessmaster has the Chessmaster personality which the
>programmer said is the strongest setting. So from that we can play around with
>the settings to see if there is something better than the default which is
>claimed to be the best settings.
>
Which is what we do not only on CM6K but on other programs as well.

>Its fine you think that CM6666 is stronger and you now use that to test other
>settings, but I disagree with using that as the benchmark for the strongest
>setting. If you do that, then why not just pick any setting and say it is the
>benchmark.
>
Because I haven't tested this ANYSETTING personality.

>I suppose the question is, have you tested it enough to say for sure that it is
>stronger. Otherwise using iut against any other setting would always be in the
>back of my mind, is this new setting that is beating CM6666 really better than
>the standard. Even after 100+ games played with that setting at various time
>controls I cannot say for sure, when the next 100 usually give different
>results.
>
While that maybe true it's value need not be in just games with CM6K. We all
know that while A beats B and B beats C don't equal A beats C.

>>>Well anyway, this josh setting has already bored me, I claim it as another
>>>hopefull to bite the dust.
>>>
>>I agree.
>
>I suppouse its only cause John is a pretty good guy that I also even bothered to
>test these settings. More likely it was some programmer who should have been
>getting the bugs out of CM7K waisting time playig around with settings, and
>thought "wow, I have played so many games and these results look pretty good"
>But how many double games were there, if that same number of games were played
>again would the results be different ??? They admitt to lack of testing. But in
>my opinion the settings are of little use.

I agree, if it wasn't for John being from Mindscape I would have wanted to see
games myself from someone elses posting prior to testing it.
>
>>>I have just finished testing it over 20 games at 5mins a game against other
>>>settings, and it is not ahead of the default. So this setting bites the dust.
>>
>>Hmmm that is not a way I would test: To quote you from above.
>>"IMHO, your tests are just as you said, for interest. It is not the way I would
>>test." No, those 5 min games they are serious testing huh, or did you have some
>>fun.
>>5 minute games are not how I would test either.
>>Thanks.
>
>Well after coming to the conclusion that the settings were of no use, I did have
>some fun, mainly to test my settings some more, all left to the CM program.
>I set up a tournament for FUN. Apart from having a total or 14 double games, the
>results had one of my settings at the top, followed my CM default, then CM
>default SS=10, with CM Josh last.
>
>Either way, I can answer John's question so he can go back to the development
>team, these settings in my view are no better than many others out there.
>
>I think the main reason is the draw setting, it is not agressive enough to want
>to win, it wants to think about drawing. Thus it deserves to fail.

My point there was that you had said in reply to my;
"I usually play 30 min side and then only to determine if a personality is worth
taking to the next step (40/2)."

I quote "This testing method has certain flaws in my view."
Here again above you said;
"Well after coming to the conclusion that the settings were of no use, I did
have some fun, mainly to test my settings some more".
These were 5 min games on one computer NOT TWO, which clearly is worse than 30.
Thanks.





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