Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Which Algorithm is considered the best ?

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 13:36:15 08/06/00

Go up one level in this thread


Show me an MTD program that uses less nodes a ply as DIEP does.

What diep is doing is very simple in search:

  PVS (starting with -infinite)
  check extensions
  checks in qsearch
  nullmove R=3
  no other crap. no pruning. Perhaps at WMCC i prune a bit,
  but that's because against computers playing is different.

  Yet i'm missing programs using less nodes a ply with MTD.
  I"m missing *any* deep searching program that uses MTD actually.

On August 06, 2000 at 10:31:58, An



drew Williams wrote:

>On August 06, 2000 at 09:38:18, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On August 05, 2000 at 11:37:01, Larry Griffiths wrote:
>>
>>>Which Algorithm is considered the best now-adays.
>>
>>Depends upon what kind of program you make.
>>
>>If you have an evaluation function that has patterns which all deliver
>>very small penalties and bonusses, from which the summation also adds up
>>to a near to material only evaluation, then MTD is an interesting
>>alternative.
>
>PostModernist uses MTD. It would be incorrect to describe its evaluation
>as being "near to material-only". This opinion (on MTD) is one that Vincent
>has expounded before, without much in the way of supporting evidence.
>
>>
>>If the evaluation function is either big, using a pawn as being
>>worth 1000 points instead of 1 point, the eval is huge, or having high scores
>>for for example king safety and or passers,
>>then you have only 1 option that outperforms
>>*anything*, and that's nullwindow search also called principal variation
>>search which is pretty easy to implement.
>>
>>Usually at the start of your program MTD looks interesting, if your
>>program gets better (more knowledge in eval, less bugs in search and
>>better move ordering), then PVS usually outperforms anything.
>>
>
>I don't think there is any evidence anywhere that supports Vincent's opinion
>about MTD. Just stating an opinion does not make it true :-)
>
>>My advice is to start with PVS and not look to the rest.
>>
>>>NegaScout? MTD? PVS? Others?  I am looking to implement one of the best search
>>>type algorithms in my program.  I would like to get it into the 2000 rated range
>>>as this has been my lifetime goal.  Then, maybe install winboard or something so
>>>it can compete against other programs to get a rating.
>>>I dont like MTD as it seems to be complex.
>>>
>>>Larry.
>
>My advice would be to get a straight alpha-beta search working, starting
>with bounds of -inf..+inf. This won't be terribly competitive, but you
>can use it as a stable reference when you move on to more sophisticated
>approaches. When you're happy with your alpha-beta search, try implementing
>an aspiration-search, which is like alpha-beta except that you start with
>bounds of score-50 .. score+50, where score is the value returned from the
>previous iteration. You will need to provide some way of handling the case
>where the returned score from *this* search falls outside this "window".
>Once you've got your aspiration search working properly, you'll be in a
>strong position to decide where you want to go with your program.
>
>Above all, have fun with your program!
>
>Andrew Williams



This page took 0.02 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.