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Subject: Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall?

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 06:00:28 10/10/00

Go up one level in this thread


On October 10, 2000 at 07:31:37, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 10, 2000 at 07:05:45, Graham Laight wrote:
>
>>It seems to me that PCs' results against GMs are tapering off into a flat line.
>>The current style of program may have come as far as they can go.
>>
>>The battle to generate the highest NPS score is no longer improving the
>>computers' performance against humans. Even Deep Junior running on a quad
>>processor is only able to score 4.5/9 against the top players.
>
>Only???
>
>4.5/9 is a wonderful result.
>
>No longer improving the computers performance???
>
>4.5/9 against players with average rating of 2700 is the best result of
>computers against humans(if I do not include the result of Deeper blue).
>
>It is even better than the result of deep blue(1996) against kasparov.

?????

If numbers tell you that scoring 50 % against the almost best players is better
than defeating the best player then you at least have to consider if those
numbers are wrong.

cheers,

Tony

>
>>
>>With dozens of programmers competing to make the "final push" to get programs
>>ahead of humans, to impartial observers it looks like the harder they push, the
>>more the bandwagon gets stuck in the mud.
>>
>>Programmers also have to remove knowledge from their eval fns to score higher
>>against their computer opponents.
>
>This is your opinion.
>This is not the programmers opinion.
>
>I see that Programmers add knowledge to their programs in order to have better
>score against computers.
>
>GambitTiger has knowledge about king safety and I can see it winning computers
>by sacrifices that other programs do not understand.
>
>>
>>Looks like a doubling of NPS no longer provides an extra 50 Elo rating against
>>humans - nothing even close, in fact.
>
>I am not sure about the nothing even close.
><snipped>
>>In other words, shooting up, plateauing for a while, then shooting up again -
>>and so on. It's possible that, because chess programmers vary the amount of
>>expertise between 20 and (say) 500 distinct pieces of knowledge, they've found a
>>plateau (probably the 2nd one), and, angry about being beaten by someone with
>>less knowledge but higher NPS, have refused to go down the knowledge route
>>seriously. Also, from many years of reading postings in this group, it is
>>apparent that NPS, and techniques to raise it, is where the focus lies with this
>>particular group of people.
>
>I disagree.
>I know cases when the new version of chess programs have smaller nps.
>
>One example:Fritz6 is alower in nps than Fritz5.32
>
>Uri



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