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Subject: Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 04:31:37 10/10/00

On October 10, 2000 at 07:05:45, Graham Laight wrote:

>It seems to me that PCs' results against GMs are tapering off into a flat line.
>The current style of program may have come as far as they can go.
>
>The battle to generate the highest NPS score is no longer improving the
>computers' performance against humans. Even Deep Junior running on a quad
>processor is only able to score 4.5/9 against the top players.

Only???

4.5/9 is a wonderful result.

No longer improving the computers performance???

4.5/9 against players with average rating of 2700 is the best result of
computers against humans(if I do not include the result of Deeper blue).

It is even better than the result of deep blue(1996) against kasparov.

>
>With dozens of programmers competing to make the "final push" to get programs
>ahead of humans, to impartial observers it looks like the harder they push, the
>more the bandwagon gets stuck in the mud.
>
>Programmers also have to remove knowledge from their eval fns to score higher
>against their computer opponents.

This is your opinion.
This is not the programmers opinion.

I see that Programmers add knowledge to their programs in order to have better
score against computers.

GambitTiger has knowledge about king safety and I can see it winning computers
by sacrifices that other programs do not understand.

>
>Looks like a doubling of NPS no longer provides an extra 50 Elo rating against
>humans - nothing even close, in fact.

I am not sure about the nothing even close.
<snipped>
>In other words, shooting up, plateauing for a while, then shooting up again -
>and so on. It's possible that, because chess programmers vary the amount of
>expertise between 20 and (say) 500 distinct pieces of knowledge, they've found a
>plateau (probably the 2nd one), and, angry about being beaten by someone with
>less knowledge but higher NPS, have refused to go down the knowledge route
>seriously. Also, from many years of reading postings in this group, it is
>apparent that NPS, and techniques to raise it, is where the focus lies with this
>particular group of people.

I disagree.
I know cases when the new version of chess programs have smaller nps.

One example:Fritz6 is alower in nps than Fritz5.32

Uri

Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Tony Werten 06:00:28 10/10/00
- Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Uri Blass 07:07:58 10/10/00
  - Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Tony Werten 07:19:34 10/10/00
- Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Vincent Diepeveen 06:07:35 10/10/00
Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Graham Laight 05:13:01 10/10/00
- Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Uri Blass 06:59:40 10/10/00
  - Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Christophe Theron 09:54:52 10/10/00
  - Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Joshua Lee 08:56:45 10/10/00
    - Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Graham Laight 09:52:44 10/10/00
    - Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Uri Blass 09:15:09 10/10/00
      - Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Joshua Lee 09:39:16 10/10/00
        
        Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Alvaro Polo 11:02:53 10/10/00
        
        Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Uri Blass 09:47:30 10/10/00
        
        Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Aaron Tay 11:43:20 10/10/00
        
        Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Uri Blass 11:57:55 10/10/00
        
        Re: In Terms Of GMs, Have PCs Hit A Brick Wall? Aaron Tay 12:26:15 10/10/00

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