Author: Eelco de Groot
Date: 21:54:48 10/21/00
Go up one level in this thread
On October 21, 2000 at 20:34:33, Paulo Soares wrote: >On October 21, 2000 at 19:26:23, Chessfun wrote: > >>On October 21, 2000 at 19:14:14, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>White is losing in this line and has no advantage but programs have the illusion >>>that white has advantage or at least equality and it pushes them to play the >>>wrong Bxc4. >>> >>>Some programs do not play Bxc4 at tournament time control because the illusion >>>is too deep for them to see it. >>> >>>The fact that tiger never considers Bxc4 as best may be a result of right >>>evaluation or result of not seeing the illusion because it is too deep. >> >> >>I think it is evaluation not as posted 1) but 2). >> >> >>>My experience with chess programs tells me that the common case with programs is >>>the case that the illusion is too deep for the programs to see. >>> >>>It can be proved by giving them the position before Ne5 and checking if they see >>>positive evaluation. >> >> >>Both Tiger's are negative before Ne5 and even forcing Bxc4 is a -1.00 >>swing from what it wants to play. Which is why I say 2). >> >> >>>Crafty17.11 does not see positive evaluation but it can see evaluation that is >>>close to 0 and it may push it to play Bxc4(I do not know,I remember that an old >>>version of Crafty could play the wrong Bxc4 after a long time). >>>Hiarcs7.32 can see positive evaluation only to fail low later and the same for >>>other programs. >> >>As I said Tiger and Gambit seeing it as a -1.00 swing they fail immediately >>and it seems to me the reason is they know by evaluation or knowledge that Bxc4 >>is wrong. >> >>Sarah. > >Rebel Tiger 12.e select Bxc4 in my PIII-450 HT=64Mb. >I believe that most of the programs will select Bxc4 and later to discard it, >like Uri wrote previously. Perhaps "new Tigers" also selects Bxc4 if you give >more time. > >Paulo > >00:00:00.6 0,02 7 41576 Qxd4 Qxd4 Nxd4 b5 Be3 a6 >00:00:01.9 -0,18 8 101591 Qxd4 Qxd4 Nxd4 b5 Bf4 a6 Bxb8 Rxb8 Nxc6 >00:00:01.1 -0,16 8 138166 Nxd4 >00:00:02.4 -0,10 8 214796 Nxd4 b5 >00:00:07.6 -0,06 9 707472 Nxd4 Nf6 e5 Qe7 Bxc4 Qxe5+ Be3 Ng4 Nf3 Nxe3 >Nxe5 Nxd1 Rxd1 >00:00:31.1 -0,12 10 3201260 Nxd4 b5 Bf4 Nd7 f3 >00:00:31.2 -0,10 10 3278507 Qxd4 >00:00:33.8 0,00 10 3398686 Qxd4 Qxd4 Nxd4 b5 Bf4 b4 >00:00:48.7 -0,08 11 5132242 Qxd4 Qxd4 Nxd4 b5 Bf4 Bb7 e5 Nd7 >00:01:41.1 0,00 12 11305699 Qxd4 Qxd4 Nxd4 b5 Be2 Nf6 0-0 >00:03:34.2 0,00 13 24388883 Qxd4 Qxd4 Nxd4 b5 a4 b4 Nd1 Ba6 f3 c5 >00:18:16.9 0,02 13 139595658 Bxc4 Hi guys, If Q5T isn't totally off here then in second position 1.Bxc4 is still playable because after 1. ..dxc3 can follow 2.Bxf7+. I haven't checked it, not so good with tactics, I'll leave that to you all I think! Regards, Eelco Running way in background: Rebel Engine for ECTool. (c) Ed Schröder Engine version : REBEL CENTURY 2 Rebel personality : "Q5T Experimental" Opening book file : REBEL.MVS Hash table size : 4 MB Analysis mode : Analyzing next move Refresh interval : 500 ms Game begin 00:00 03.01 -0.04 1.Nxd4 Bc5 2.Be3 00:00 05.00 -0.17 1.Qxd4 Qxd4 2.Nxd4 b5 3.Bd2 Nf6 00:01 05.01 -0.11 1.Nxd4 b5 2.a3 Bc5 3.Be3 00:02 06.01 -0.18 1.Qxd4 00:03 06.01 0.15 1.Qxd4 Qxd4 2.Nxd4 b5 3.Bf4 Nd7 4.Nxc6 00:03 07.00 -0.07 1.Qxd4 Qxd4 2.Nxd4 b5 3.Bf4 b4 4.Na4 Nf6 5.Bxc4 00:10 08.00 -0.20 1.Qxd4 Qxd4 2.Nxd4 b5 3.f4+ b4 4.Nd1 c5 5.Nf3 00:40 09.00 -0.13 1.Qxd4 Qxd4 2.Nxd4 b5 3.f4 Nf6 4.a3 Bc5 5.Be3 a5 02:13 09.03 -0.13 1.Bxc4 02:20 09.03 0.14 1.Bxc4 b5 2.Nxb5 Bb4+ 3.Bd2 Bxd2+ 03:30 10.00 0.20 1.Bxc4 b5 2.Nxb5 Bb4+ 3.Bd2 Bxd2+ 06:31 11.00 0.14 1.Bxc4 b5 2.Nxb5 Bb4+ 3.Bd2 Bxd2+ Last Move : 1... dxc3 (White to play) 00:00 01.09 2.90 2.Bxf7+ Ke7 00:00 02.00 2.53 2.Bxf7+ Ke7 3.Bg5+ Nf6 4.Bxf6+ gxf6 00:01 03.00 0.03 2.Bxf7+ Ke7 3.Qb3 Qd3 4.bxc3 Qxe4+ 00:02 04.00 1.17 2.Bxf7+ Ke7 3.Qb3 Qb6 4.Bxg8 Qxb3 5.Bxb3 00:06 05.00 0.71 2.Bxf7+ Ke7 3.Qb3 Qb6 4.Bxg8 Qxb3 5.Bxb3 cxb2 6.Bxb2 00:23 06.00 0.39 2.Bxf7+ Ke7 3.Qb3 Qb6 4.Bxg8 Qxb3 01:30 07.00 0.59 2.Bxf7+ Ke7 3.Qb3 Nf6 4.bxc3 Qa5 5.e5 06:32 08.00 0.59 2.Bxf7+ Ke7 3.Qb3 Qb6 4.Bxg8 Qxb3 5.Bxb3 cxb2 6.Bxb2 Bg4 11:40 09.00 0.87 2.Bxf7+ Ke7 3.Qb3 Qb6 4.Bxg8 Qxb3 5.Bxb3 cxb2 6.Bxb2
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