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Subject: Re: Some more test position with the same team(Nxa1 bad)

Author: Paulo Soares

Date: 17:34:33 10/21/00

Go up one level in this thread


On October 21, 2000 at 19:26:23, Chessfun wrote:

>On October 21, 2000 at 19:14:14, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>White is losing in this line and has no advantage but programs have the illusion
>>that white has advantage or at least equality and it pushes them to play the
>>wrong Bxc4.
>>
>>Some programs do not play Bxc4 at tournament time control because the illusion
>>is too deep for them to see it.
>>
>>The fact that tiger never considers Bxc4 as best may be a result of right
>>evaluation or result of not seeing the illusion because it is too deep.
>
>
>I think it is evaluation not as posted 1) but 2).
>
>
>>My experience with chess programs tells me that the common case with programs is
>>the case that the illusion is too deep for the programs to see.
>>
>>It can be proved by giving them the position before Ne5 and checking if they see
>>positive evaluation.
>
>
>Both Tiger's are negative before Ne5 and even forcing Bxc4 is a -1.00
>swing from what it wants to play. Which is why I say 2).
>
>
>>Crafty17.11 does not see positive evaluation but it can see evaluation that is
>>close to 0 and it may push it to play Bxc4(I do not know,I remember that an old
>>version of Crafty could play the wrong Bxc4 after a long time).
>>Hiarcs7.32 can see positive evaluation only to fail low later and the same for
>>other programs.
>
>As I said Tiger and Gambit seeing it as a -1.00 swing they fail immediately
>and it seems to me the reason is they know by evaluation or knowledge that Bxc4
>is wrong.
>
>Sarah.

Rebel Tiger 12.e select Bxc4 in my PIII-450 HT=64Mb.
I believe that most of the programs will select Bxc4 and later to discard it,
like Uri wrote previously. Perhaps "new Tigers" also selects Bxc4 if you give
more time.

Paulo

00:00:00.6	0,02	7	41576	Qxd4  Qxd4  Nxd4  b5  Be3  a6
00:00:01.9	-0,18	8	101591	Qxd4  Qxd4  Nxd4  b5  Bf4  a6  Bxb8  Rxb8  Nxc6
00:00:01.1	-0,16	8	138166	Nxd4
00:00:02.4	-0,10	8	214796	Nxd4  b5
00:00:07.6	-0,06	9	707472	Nxd4  Nf6  e5  Qe7  Bxc4  Qxe5+  Be3  Ng4  Nf3  Nxe3
Nxe5  Nxd1  Rxd1
00:00:31.1	-0,12	10	3201260	Nxd4  b5  Bf4  Nd7  f3
00:00:31.2	-0,10	10	3278507	Qxd4
00:00:33.8	0,00	10	3398686	Qxd4  Qxd4  Nxd4  b5  Bf4  b4
00:00:48.7	-0,08	11	5132242	Qxd4  Qxd4  Nxd4  b5  Bf4  Bb7  e5  Nd7
00:01:41.1	0,00	12	11305699	Qxd4  Qxd4  Nxd4  b5  Be2  Nf6  0-0
00:03:34.2	0,00	13	24388883	Qxd4  Qxd4  Nxd4  b5  a4  b4  Nd1  Ba6  f3  c5
00:18:16.9	0,02	13	139595658	Bxc4



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