Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 14:51:02 03/26/01
Go up one level in this thread
On March 25, 2001 at 12:46:25, Thorsten Czub wrote: >On March 25, 2001 at 09:47:07, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>I would personally like to see the negative remarks directed at ChessBase >>disappear. > >why ? isn´t it allowed to speak out an opinion here ? >Is chessbase a participant here :-))) I thought it is a company. >So nobody is involved personally. > >>There are several things/places/people that I do not like, but I >>don't continually harp on them here (or anywhere for that matter). > >right. i do the same. but it came (on topic !) that we discussed the news >that the tiger engines will be sold by chessbase, and people commented on this. > >i thought it would be allowed to comment on this too. That isn't the problem. IE I hate Toshiba and will _never_ buy another of their products for any reason. But I don't continually rant about them. And I don't assume nor claim that they continue to do the same things that they did to irk me in the first place. I think that in some way, _every_ "basement tournament" is flawed in one way or another. Wrong books, wrong settings, ponder on/ponder off, learning, no learning, etc. Which is why everybody gets different results when they play these basement-events. I think it would be foolish to argue that Fritz is a bad program when it is clearly one of the best in head-to-head competitions. Unless someone has real evidence to show that something underhanded is going on... And so far, none has ever been presented. In _every_ such match, there is a winner and a loser. And sometimes the loser makes wild statements to explain why he lost. I recall a pretty famous match between crafty and Fritz 5 on FICS. Crafty won quite easily and the opponent accused me of using a Cray rather than my old pentium pro 200 machine. Was the claim true? Nope. Could I prove it? Not without having someone neutral go over the game with equivalent hardware. Was it an important issue? Not to me at all. BTW we later learned that Fritz 5 simply had a bad pawn weakness in its eval, and Crafty just happened to evaluate that term correctly, so it was winning ending after ending (different games, same basic idea) until it was finally fixed in Fritz. That didn't mean Fritz was bad nor that Crafty was very good. It was just a result that happened and it left some happy and some not very happy. There was no conspiracy or anything... It is very easy to allow personal dislikes to transform into public comments that might not be totally accurate. I have heard about ChessBase doing things that seemed wrong to me. But I am not sure this is the place to beat up on them about things that they have done, particularly if others are not sharing the same sort of feelings... IE if your voice is the only one being heard, it is easier for people to complain than it would be if several were complaining about whatever it is that ChessBase has done. > >> I fail to >>see how ChessBase is going to be the end of computer chess. > >i do not say that chessbase is the end of computerchess. >i say that when all chess programs happen to be chessbase engines it will >be the end of computerchess. >thats something different. >chessbase can continue with whatever they want to do, >as long as we have alternatives, it is ok for me. > >> Crafty works as >>an engine for the ChessBase GUI. > >right. i know. > >>They don't have _any_ say-so in what I do, >>how I do it, or when I do it. They neither encourage nor discourage my >>development. I am pretty sure that any commercial entity would like to see the >>demise of all the freeware chess engines, for the obvious reason. But rather >>than being able to discourage new program development, commercial entities are >>powerless to prevent it... just look at all the winboard/xboard engines that >>are available today. > >right. > >>Most people here enjoy your posts and your tournaments. But most also get >>tired of the attacks on ChessBase. > >i have a good advise: don´t read my post when they make you tired. >nobody is forced to click on posts with my name. > >the attacks on chessbase (!) will not stop as long as my personal opinions >change. >I guess they will change when chessbase behaves different. as long as they >continue the way they did in the past, i see no reason to change my mind about >the things. > > >>And all you manage to do is clog up the >>moderator email inbox with complaints. > >sorry. >it should be forbidden to complain :-)))) > >where is the button for me to complain about the people who complain about me ? >have i - when i was tired - clicked on somebodies post to complain later ? >strange behaviour, isn´t it ? > >>Please continue doing the things you do. But everytime you find yourself >>typing "ChessBase" ask yourself "Everybody knows that I don't like this >>company, so is it possible for me to simply delete the thought I was writing >>down and move on to something that is not negative?" > >look. i think the people have more problems with me speaking out my opinion, >than i do with chessbase. >you can see this whenever i do post nothing about chessbase, and only game data >or standings, and people jump on something and make big noise (and the people >jumnping on the neutral data i posted came from which groups ? chessbase lovers, >fanatics and chessbase workers). > >Did i ever complained about them jumping on me for nothing ? > >and on the other hand i shall be tolerant to them ?? > >ok. > >prejudices is not only a one way street. >i can live with them having a certain picture about me hating chessbase. >anyone seems to have a hate-object to satisfy his urges. > >it's not the way they believe. > >i know frederic in person, also many others. i do not hate them. we do not >attack each other when we see us. but i have a different opinion about what they >do. nothing against the persons behind. only different ideas how to behave when >doing a job as a company making business out of computerchess. >i don't see why this should be a wrong and not allowed thing in a democratic >world. > >it is not my intention to hurt them. and i have no interest and will not >prevent many anonymous readers with spanish names to complain about something >that is completely normal: having a different opinion about a company >and the things they do. > > >>It would certainly make the lives of the moderators much more simple. >>:) > >sorry. > >i can imagine what happens. but what should i do ? >there are a few people here in this forum who are deeply >bound/related to the company you talk about. > >its normal that they defend their interest spheres by complaining >when somebody attacks the company that pays them. > >how could i stop them to do what they need to do ? > >i think it is normal in a democracy that when you have at least 2 >groups with different opinion, the one group will complain about the other >group. >no matter what the reason is. > >an event happens. >and ONE group likes it, the other group does NOT like it, >and the moderator gets complains. > >i will give my best not to provoke the other side. > >in the moment crafty plays against rebel-century3 e.g. ! > >i am completely busy watching this game and the main-lines and the scores. > >[Event "Odyssey2001-Tournament"] >[Site "k6-400, 40/120"] >[Date "2001.03.25"] >[Round "3"] >[White "cra18_3"] >[Black "rebel-century3"] >[Result "*"] >[TimeControl "40/7200"] > >1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e3 e6 5. Bxc4 c5 6. O-O a6 7. dxc5 Qxd1 >8. Rxd1 Bxc5 9. a3 b5 10. Be2 Bb7 11. b4 Be7 12. Bb2 Nbd7 13. Nbd2 Rc8 14. >a4 Rc2 15. Ba3 bxa4 16. Nd4 Rc8 17. b5 Ra8 >* > >so far it looks like crafty is better.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.