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Subject: Re: Cm6555 is definitely the strongest Chessmaster around.

Author: Chessfun

Date: 02:17:41 05/20/01

Go up one level in this thread


On May 20, 2001 at 03:51:34, stuart taylor wrote:

>On May 20, 2001 at 03:38:30, Peter Berger wrote:
>
>>On May 20, 2001 at 03:18:56, stuart taylor wrote:
>>
>>>On May 19, 2001 at 22:24:21, John Dahlem wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 19, 2001 at 21:51:18, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 19, 2001 at 21:28:25, Eric Tom wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 19, 2001 at 19:06:11, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 19, 2001 at 15:34:15, william penn wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>i suspect that cm6555 would still score among the top three, even against the
>>>>>>>>best and newest programs. Cm8000 is a rip-off since there is a noticable
>>>>>>>>decrease in strength from the previous more strong version 6000
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On what do you base that?
>>>>>>>And is it stronger than 6000 or 7000?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And if it is a rip off, can there be any compensation, or money-back?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>S.Taylor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Compensation?  Maybe the recent amazing personalities, such as CMUtzinger and
>>>>>>CMFun can compensate, I don't know.  I've recently fell in love with
>>>>>>CM8_Bendorz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>>Eric
>>>>>
>>>>>A clear weakening of playing strength makes it questionable as an "upgrade" in
>>>>>my opinion.
>>>>>All other extras and improvements should NEVER be at the expense of playing
>>>>>strength, Unless specifically made clear. If it's simply not improved, that's
>>>>>also not so good, but if it is EVEN WEAKER, then patches must patch up atleast
>>>>>that!
>>>>>I don't know if any other program was that much weaker than TWO upgrades
>>>>>earlier!
>>>>>S.Taylor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's a _different_ engine, I don't know if they ever claimed it was stronger,
>>>>and if they didn't, there is no reason to even _think_ of compensation. If they
>>>>did, I personally still wouldn't feel cheated as long as the thing isn't some
>>>>random mover or something like that (they added features, that is enough to call
>>>>it a new version).  Also, I haven't seen any cm6000-cm8000 matches published,
>>>>and until someone does, I suggest everyone stop assuming 8000 is weaker than
>>>>6000 anyway.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>John
>>>
>>>As I have said, There are sooo many results reported on this forum, that I don't
>>>see we need to wait for something to be "published".
>>>Next year will be too late to ask for a new patch for CM8000.
>>>S.Taylor
>>
>>I don't follow - I have read several of the Chessmaster posts, too and haven't
>>seen anything suggesting that CM8000 _isn't_ much stronger than CM6000 .
>>
>>IMHO there are two possible explanations for the disappointment with the CM8000
>>results :
>>
>>a.) CM loses some match - then an alternative personality is created and
>>surprise : it scores better - then this personality is tested .
>>
>>Result reports usually look like this :
>>
>>Octopus      - 37.0/56
>>Fortress     - 36.5
>>Devourer     - 31.0
>>8555         - 29.5
>>Omega        - 29.0
>>8777         - 29.0
>>Kiwi(Banks3) - 28.5
>>Deep CM      - 28.0
>>Rudidio(KKND)- 27.5
>>Utzinger     - 26.5
>>Titan        - 26.5
>>Extra        - 24.5
>>Chessmaster16- 24.0
>>El Rey       - 21.5
>>Mg1          - 21.0
>>
>>I can't draw any conclusions out of this result , can you ?
>>
>>The only trend I got so far is that a higher value for SS is better at longer
>>time controls again.
>>
>>b.) Maybe CM6000 is worse than its results in the SSDF suggest - this might very
>>well be the case : it played the minimum number of games necessary and it played
>>_very_ few games against other top programs .
>>
>>
>>CM8000 really scored bad against Fritz and partly Junior ; I am looking forward
>>to a match against the Tigers - it seems to do quite OK against them in my
>>basement, especially against Gambit Tiger .
>>
>>pete
>
>I'm sorry if you I read things wrongly, but I thought it was quite obvious to
>daily readers of this forum.
>There are countless examples, so don't say what I'm missing out when I just
>quote one recent example, which is that CM8000 got a minus score against Junior
>5, whereas CM6000 beat Junior 5, 2-0.[both are in official testings]
>  I could dig up much much more, if I spent some time over it.
>S.Taylor

You make all these statements yet your first post;
http://www.icdchess.com/forums/1/message.shtml?170600
in this thread indicates that you know nothing?

Sarah.





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