Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Deep Blue--Part III

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 18:52:03 05/11/98

Go up one level in this thread


On May 11, 1998 at 09:00:18, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>
>On May 11, 1998 at 02:06:01, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>
>>On May 10, 1998 at 18:51:35, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>24.b4?     this move is a horrible positional concession. Lucky for DB
>>>most PC
>>>                programs play it too.
>>>26. b5?   this is horrible. a nitwit move. programs without that much
>>>knowledge
>>>               play it too. Few short term tactical advantages are
>>>preferred over
>>>               long term positional terms which tell it that it leads to
>>>a horrible position.
>>>
>>>All the other ? marks of DB in game IV are of no use for me, but say
>>>enough.
>>
>>This is garbage.  The plan of b2-b4-b5 is !!, not ??.  Deep Blue is
>>looking for counterplay against Kasparov's king.  If it doesn't get
>>something happening it is just going to be crushed.
>
>Besides on my own chessinsight i'm relying on the analyses of Seirawan,
>published June ICCA 97, you are GM too, or basing on other
>GM's apart from Kasparov who may not join this discussion, unless
>he publices proof like main lines and stuff why it is good?

His publicly expressed opinion is good enough for me.  He made them
somewhere around the time of the match, either in the post-game
comments, or perhaps during the break before games 5 and 6.  I don't
recall when exactly, it was a long time ago.  But the reason I recall
his comment is because b2-b4-b5 certainly would not have occured to me
to be good!

As for the "long term positional disadvantage" of the b-pawn advance, I
am sure you know as well as I do that middlegames are played in the
short term, not the long term.  I think that's all I need to say here:
if you can justify it tactically, you can do it.  And Deep Blue is
probably the best entity on the planet for justifying things tactically.

Still, the tactics are far enough away to me that I would consider
b2-b4-b5 a positional idea, not a tactical one.  Maybe for a super-GM it
is different.  Anyway, if you want to think I am crazy, that is your
prerogative. :-)  Deep Blue would have had a hard time holding game four
if it wasn't able to cause problems on the queenside.  It certainly
wouldn't have been able to stop Kasparov on the other side of the board.

>Even if b4 is a good move, can you comment on all the other ? moves i
>wrote about, like the horrible Bxg6?, which is played
>clearly because of lacking simple positional knowledge.

Some of the moves look sucky, I'll give you that.  One problem that
occurs with deep searches is that the software can see problems in
normal continuations and decide that a line of play with a 'weak' move
played early on gives a better backed-up alpha-beta score than
alternative lines.

This probably doesn't explain every move you consider to be dubious.
And I'm not saying Deep Blue is a perfect player.  I just think your
comments were overly one-sided, and in the case of b2-b4-b5 I felt they
were clearly over the top.

>Greetings,
>Vincent

Dave Gomboc



This page took 0.02 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.