Author: Uri Blass
Date: 04:02:03 10/01/01
Go up one level in this thread
On September 30, 2001 at 19:33:38, Slater Wold wrote: >On September 30, 2001 at 18:22:25, Uri Blass wrote: > >>1)Junior7 also play good sacrifices that other programs do not consider so it is >>not clear if the alternative not to let it to do it is better. > >I agree. I have seen it execute some very great sacrifices....... > >> >>Amir(the programmer of Junior) explained that Juior knows no better way and >>it means that doing it more materialistic is going to be counter productive(of >>course there are cases when it is going to be productive but there are more >>cases when it is going to be counter productive). > >I understand. It's asking the computer to see further than it can see. But >from what I've seen, it seems to be a lot more productive, than counter >productive. Because I believe (my) DJ7 wins a lot more than it loses. > >> >>2)I have also an example from one of my correspondence games when Junior >>hesitates if to sacrifice a piece for 3 pawns(it wants to sacrifice a piece >>after some time but after more time changes it's mind). > >I believe that in an endgame, this might not be a bad idea, or at least >considers some thought. (DF is KNOWN for sac'ing pieces for pawns, in the >endgame.) But on move 10, it's dangerous. There is _no_ clear advatange, even >in DJ7's mainline, to trade the N for 3 p's. > >> >>Deep Fritz in that example likes to sacrifice and it can see a clear advantage >>but it is not clear if the sacrifice is correct or not correct(I chose to >>sacrifice the piece and we are already some moves after it). > >Hard to agree or disagree, without a position. :) > >> >>I may post the game later and I do not want to discuss this question here before >>the game ends. > >I would be very interested. Please do. > >> >>The game is from the championship of Israel in correspondence games and >>I have 4 out of 5 in the finished games and 3 unfinished games. >> >>I have a winning position in 2 out of 3 of my games and the game that I talk >>about is the only game when I do not feel sure about the result after correct >>play of both sides. >> >>Note that I tried engine-engine games before deciding about the sacrifice and >>the only thing that I can tell is that there were no draws in these games and >>none of these games were leading to the position that is today some moves after >>the sacrifice. >> >>Uri > > >I look forward to seeing these games! > > I cannot post the full game now but I think that I can safely post position from move 15 of the game(we are at move 34) when I decided not to sacrifice a piece inspite of the fact that Deep fritz asked me to sacrifice the piece I chose the quiet move 15.Bf1 that was suggested by the tigers(I did not have Deep Fritz interface for the tigers at that time but I copied the line of tiger and saved them) Uri blass - Yoav dothan [D]r4r1k/1bqnbpp1/p2ppn1p/1p6/3NP3/P1N4Q/1PP1BPPP/2BRR1K1 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Deep Fritz: 15.Qxe6-- -+ (-3.50) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.34) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 3kN 15.Bd3 Ne5 16.Bf4 Rfc8 17.Qg3 ² (0.34) Depth: 5/17 00:00:00 12kN 15.Qe3! ² (0.38) Depth: 5/17 00:00:00 15kN 15.Qe3 Rfc8 16.f4 d5 17.e5 Ne8 ² (0.28) Depth: 6/22 00:00:00 52kN 15.Bd3! ² (0.31) Depth: 6/25 00:00:00 70kN 15.Bd3 Ne5 16.Bg5 Kg8 17.Bf4 ² (0.28) Depth: 7/23 00:00:00 173kN 15.Bd3 Ne5 16.f4 Nxd3 17.cxd3 d5 18.Qf3 dxe4 19.dxe4 Rad8 = (0.19) Depth: 8/27 00:00:01 523kN 15.Be3! = (0.22) Depth: 8/29 00:00:02 1378kN 15.Be3! Nxe4 16.Bxh6 gxh6 17.Qxh6+ Kg8 18.Nxe4 Bxe4 19.Nxe6 fxe6 = (0.25) Depth: 8/29 00:00:02 1432kN 15.Be3 Rad8 16.Bg5 Kg8 17.Bh4 Ne5 18.Qe3 d5 19.f4 = (0.19) Depth: 9/32 00:00:05 2957kN 15.Bd3! = (0.22) Depth: 9/32 00:00:06 3248kN 15.Bf3! = (0.25) Depth: 9/32 00:00:08 4352kN 15.Bf3 Ne5 16.Bf4 Nc4 17.e5 dxe5 18.Bxe5 Qb6 19.Bxb7 Qxb7 20.Rb1 Rad8 = (0.03) Depth: 10/32 00:00:12 6718kN 15.Bd3! = (0.06) Depth: 10/32 00:00:12 6857kN 15.Bd3! Rac8 16.Qg3 Ne5 17.Be3 Nc4 18.Bxc4 Qxc4 19.Bf4 d5 20.f3 = (0.22) Depth: 10/33 00:00:14 8094kN 15.Bd3 Nc5 16.Be3 Rfc8 17.f3 d5 18.exd5 Nxd3 19.Rxd3 Nxd5 20.Nxd5 = (0.16) Depth: 11/36 00:00:59 32815kN 15.Be3! = (0.19) Depth: 11/36 00:01:10 38445kN 15.Be3 Rfe8 16.Bd3 Nc5 17.Qg3 Nfxe4 18.Bxe4 Nxe4 19.Nxe4 Bxe4 20.Bxh6 Bg6 = (0.19) Depth: 12/36 00:02:30 79293kN 15.Be3 Rfe8 16.Bd3 Ne5 17.Bf4 Kg8 18.Nf3 Red8 19.Nxe5 = (0.16) Depth: 13/39 00:06:05 201799kN 15.Be3 Rfe8 16.Bd3 Ne5 17.f4 Nc4 18.Bxc4 Qxc4 19.e5 Nd5 20.Nxd5 = (0.16) Depth: 14/44 00:16:35 575542kN 15.Be3 Rab8 16.Bg5 Rfe8 17.Bc1 Rbc8 18.Bf1 Nc5 19.f3 Qb6 = (0.09) Depth: 15/43 01:02:11 2252600kN 15.Bd3! = (0.13) Depth: 15/43 01:16:02 2761421kN 15.Bd3! Ne5 16.f4 Nc4 17.g4 d5 18.g5 Nxe4 19.Nxe4 = (0.19) Depth: 15/45 01:51:41 4019251kN 15.Nd5! = (0.22) Depth: 15/45 02:34:28 5613455kN 15.Nd5 exd5 16.Bxh6 gxh6 17.Qxh6+ Nh7 18.Nf5 Rg8 19.Nxe7 Ndf6 20.Nxg8 ² (0.38) Depth: 16/46 02:59:49 6574760kN 15.Nd5 exd5 16.Bxh6 gxh6 17.Qxh6+ Nh7 18.Nf5 Rg8 19.Nxe7 Ndf6 20.Nxg8 Rxg8 = (0.22) Depth: 17/45 04:03:25 9089131kN 15.Nd5 exd5 16.Bxh6 gxh6 17.Qxh6+ Nh7 18.Nf5 Rg8 19.Nxe7 Ndf6 20.Nxg8 = (0.25) Depth: 18/47 06:52:40 15775110kN 15.Nd5 exd5 16.Bxh6 gxh6 17.Qxh6+ Nh7 18.Nf5 Rg8 19.Nxe7 Ndf6 20.Nxg8 Rxg8 = (0.25) Depth: 19/49 18:23:32 43123576kN (blass, tel-aviv 03.04.2001) Gambittiger's analysis 00:00:00.1 0.28 6 80734 Bf1 Ne5 f3 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 exd5 00:00:00.1 0.34 6 81216 Bf1 Qc5 Qf3 Ne5 Qf4 Nh5 00:00:01.2 0.40 7 191652 Bf1 Qc5 Be3 Qc7 f3 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 00:00:01.3 0.34 8 314903 Bf1 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxe6 fxe6 Qxe6 N7f6 Nxd5 Nxd5 Rxd5 Bxd5 Qxe7 Qxc2 00:00:04.6 0.30 9 670111 Bf1 Nc5 f3 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 Qh5 Bb7 Be3 00:00:10.5 0.28 10 1673234 Bf1 Kg8 f3 d5 e5 Nxe5 Nxe6 Qb6+ Nd4 Bc5 Be3 00:00:24.5 0.28 11 4118062 Bf1 Kg8 Be3 Ne5 f3 Nc4 Bxc4 bxc4 Qg3 Nh5 Qg4 Nf6 00:01:25.2 0.20 12 15032529 Bf1 Ne5 f3 Nc4 Bxc4 bxc4 Qg3 Qc5 Qf2 Kg8 Bf4 Nh5 Be3 00:03:42.1 0.20 13 42530376 Bf1 Ne5 f3 Nc4 Bxc4 bxc4 Qg3 Qa5 Be3 Nh5 Qg4 Nf6 Qh4 Qe5 00:14:29.0 0.20 14 167993884 Bf1 Ne5 f3 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 Qh5 Nd7 Be3 Bf6 Bd3 Qe5 Qxe5 Nxe5 Be2 00:28:43.8 0.28 14 323514398 f3 Nb6 Qg3 Nfd7 Rf1 Rfc8 Bf4 Nc5 Be3 Bf6 Qg4 Qe7 Rf2 Nc4 00:42:28.5 0.22 15 486274085 f3 Nb6 Qg3 Nfd7 Rf1 Bf6 Rf2 Rfc8 Bf1 d5 Qxc7 Rxc7 exd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 Bf4 03:04:52.1 0.22 16 -2035399277 f3 Bd8 Be3 Qc8 Nb3 Bb6 Bxb6 Nxb6 Na5 Nc4 Bxc4 bxc4 Na4 Rd8 Rd4 d5 Nxb7 Qxb7 exd5 05:52:59.4 0.26 16 -139113515 Bf1 Rfc8 g4 Kg8 f4 Nh7 Bg2 Qb6 e5 d5 Qg3 Rc4 Be3 Bc5 Nce2 Qc7 15:51:04.5 0.26 17 -967694180 Bf1 Rfc8 g4 Kg8 f4 Nh7 Qg2 Qd8 Re2 Bf6 Qf3 Qe7 Rg2 Nc5 Be3 Nf8 g5 hxg5 fxg5 Tiger14's analysis 00:00:00.1 0.18 7 72478 f3 Ne5 Rf1 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 Qg3 00:00:00.2 0.08 7 152673 f3 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 Be3 Nf6 Bd3 00:00:01.2 0.06 8 250574 f3 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 Be3 Nc5 Qh5 Bf6 Qg4 00:00:03.5 0.04 9 491079 f3 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 Be3 Nc5 Qg4 Bd6 g3 00:00:06.0 0.06 9 1163956 Bf1 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxe6 fxe6 Qxe6 N7f6 Nxd5 Nxd5 Rxd5 Bxd5 Qxd5 Qxc2 Rxe7 00:00:12.9 0.04 10 2114406 Bf1 Ne5 f3 Nc4 Bxc4 bxc4 Qg3 Nd7 Be3 Bf6 Re2 00:00:31.6 0.08 11 5438174 Bf1 Ne5 f3 Nc4 Bxc4 bxc4 Qg3 Nd7 Be3 Bf6 Rd2 Nc5 00:01:01.8 0.06 12 11034602 Bf1 Ne5 f3 Nc4 Bxc4 bxc4 Qg3 Nd7 Be3 Bf6 Rd2 Nc5 Red1 00:03:32.6 0.02 13 39053915 Bf1 Ne5 Qe3 Nc4 Qg3 Rfc8 Bxc4 bxc4 f3 Nh5 Qf2 Qb6 g3 Nf6 00:17:27.7 0.06 14 206800570 Bf1 Ne5 f4 Nc4 g4 d5 exd5 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 g5 Rg8 Bg2 Bxg2 Qxg2 Bc5 gxh6 gxh6 01:12:51.7 0.02 15 877173192 Bf1 Nb6 Bd3 Kg8 Qg3 Nh5 Qf3 Nf6 Bf1 Nc4 Qg3 Nh5 Qd3 Bh4 Qh3 02:15:22.9 0.02 16 1701341968 Bf1 Nb6 Bd3 Kg8 Re3 Nh7 Rg3 Ng5 Qg4 Bf6 Bf1 Nc4 h4 h5 Qf4 e5 07:05:55.7 -0.04 17 1172099456 Bf1 Ne5 f4 Nc4 b3 Nb6 Bb2 Kg8 Qg3 Rfd8 Re3 Nh5 Qf3 Nf6 a4 bxa4 Nxa4 Nxa4 bxa4 58:22:38.1 -0.02 18 1518540532 Bf1 Rfc8 g4 Kg8 f4 Nc5 Bg2 Nh7 e5 d5 Re2 Nf8 f5 Bg5 Bxg5 hxg5 Qe3 Qd8 fxe6 fxe6 Uri
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