Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 10:16:48 02/26/02
Go up one level in this thread
On February 26, 2002 at 10:56:12, Sune Fischer wrote: >On February 26, 2002 at 09:09:17, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On February 26, 2002 at 06:11:05, Graham Laight wrote: >> >>>If two players were above ELO level 4000 (approx), they would always draw. >>> >> >>What is this assumption based on? Certainly not scientific research. IE >>who has proven that the game is a draw. >> >>And the question was about _one_ "perfect player". Not two. If there is just >>one, his rating will continually rise over time and since he never loses, it >>has no real upper bound. > >It is not enough that he never loses, drawing is also losing points, and so >would give him a finite rating. >The question is, do you need to play perfect to draw the perfect player? > I would assume yes to your question, assuming that he always wins from the white side and a non-perfect player can't win from the white side because of the mistakes. But it is too philosophical to waste much mental energy on. :) > >>>This is derived by extrapolating from the following graph, which is drawn by a >>>former secretary of the USCF: >>> >>>http://math.bu.edu/people/mg/ratings/Draws.jpg >>> >>>-g >> >>That has nothing to do with "perfect play". It is assuming the game is >>drawn, which is not a given. > >Doesn't matter if it is drawn or a win, the perfect player can only be certain >of a win if he has white and the chess is a win for white, or vice versa with >black. >I suppose we could ask a different question, if chess is a win for white and the >perfect player is allowed always to play white, will he still have a finite >rating? Probably not...! >However, that is not *fair*, he should play both sides, so it is hard to prove >he would always score a 100%. true. It depends on the mistake(s) made by the imperfect player. I am simply assuming someone that plays "perfect" wins every game because making a mistake as white to turn the win into a draw probably still requires perfect play to avoid one more mistake that turns it into a loss. Would be nice to have 32-piece EGTBs and we could answer this easily. :) >What if he playes an almost perfect player, one that only makes a mistake in 1 >in a million moves? Clearly that guy will have a finite rating, and he should >stand a good chance against the perfect player, probably scoring close to 50% => >the perfect player will also get a finite rating. > > >-S. If the perfect player doesn't win every game then yes, he has a finite rating. I agree. The only issue is whether he wins all or not...
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