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Subject: Re: Rolf's Thesis (exact wording!)

Author: Chessfun

Date: 13:04:30 02/04/03

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On February 04, 2003 at 11:35:55, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On February 04, 2003 at 07:46:48, Joachim Rang wrote:
>
>>On February 03, 2003 at 19:05:27, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On February 03, 2003 at 18:54:54, Peter Hegger wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>...how is it that they now consistently play at the 2700-2800 level? Against
>>>>Kramnik (2810), against Bareev (2729), and now against Kasparov (2807), a
>>>>program is turning in a 2807 performance and very much _holding its own_
>>>>Calling any modern program a 2500 player is akin to calling the above mentioned
>>>>super GM's 2500 players.
>>>>It also looks to me as though the SSDF list is getting closer to the reality of
>>>>the true state of program prowess than (admittedly) it use to be.
>>>>Any comments welcome.
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Peter
>>>
>>>A pity that you do not read.   Show events are NOT a possible tool to calculate
>>>the strength.   And hard competition doesn't exist.   That's it.   I still hold
>>>that comps are 2400 at best in fierce tournament chess.
>>>
>>>
>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>
>>you are the only one... a pity that YOU don't read:
>>
>>http://www.chessbase.com/columns/column.asp?pid=160
>>
>>Quote:
>>
>>Discussing this with ChessBase director and computer chess guru Frederic
>>Friedel, we surmise that today's top programs play consistently at a 2500-2600
>>level of chess quality. The difference is that they instantly and mercilessly
>>punish every human mistake and almost never let a winning position slip. This
>>near-elimination of the margin for error pushes their practical performance up
>>toward the 2800 level.
>
>You are correct. I didn't know that quote. Thank you.
>
>But please consider that Fred is no longer on science but on heavy business and
>money. I know for sure that we would understand if I could explain what I meant.
>Most people don't read - what is meant - but only what they can decrypt with
>their spectacles. But that is sufficient for the opticians but not for Rolf.
>
>I will try it in shortcut mode.
>
>I hold the following theory:
>
>1.) Human tournament chess rules!

>2.) identity of chess programs!

>3.) high recompensation if humans beat chess programs!

>4.) in a defined period of time, say half a year, the progs are forbidden to be
>changed; new games into book are allowed, techno bugs are allowed to be
>corrected; but the chess system of the engine version jan-june is constant;
>books are allowed but without lines no computer ever could solve actually;
>tables must be discussed by the nasters themselves and possibly forbidden and
>reduced or such!

>Now my thesis: Under these defined conditions progs would decrease in strength
>(Elo performance) down to 2400 the average. Max. at 2500!


Interesting as 1 and 3 are already pretty current and 2 is only IMO a marginal
difference. 4 now here is an interesting one, how do you take away knowledge
gained by the masters in much the same way as you intend to do with a PC
program. Also what about learning, allowed?. Then let the "nasters" sic, decide
whether PC's can play with tablebases, wonder what the answer would be lol.


>Now let me know what you think. Also let me know please if Fred said something
>out of his new McDonalds for freaks where you can eat Hamburgers for over 40
>dollars each...


Frederic owns a McDonalds?, gotta love his business sense.

Sarah.



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