Author: blass uri
Date: 23:03:05 10/01/98
Go up one level in this thread
On October 01, 1998 at 21:34:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On October 01, 1998 at 14:15:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On October 01, 1998 at 11:40:46, blass uri wrote: >> >>> >>>On October 01, 1998 at 08:21:43, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On October 01, 1998 at 01:11:12, blass uri wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>8/1r5p/6p1/8/P2k4/K6P/1R4P1/8 black to move >>>>> >>>>>Many programs are playing Rxb2 because they computes that white is losing its >>>>>pawn in the pawn endgame and do not understand that after Rxb2 Kxb2 Kc4 Kc2 Kb4 >>>>>Kd3 Kxa4 white is winning. >>>>> >>>>>Rxb2 is not the first move they want to play because they need time to see that >>>>>black wins a pawn by this stupid mistake after Rxb2 Kxb2 Kc4 Ka3 >>>>> >>>>>Is there a program that understand by static evaluation that white is winning >>>>>with the king at d3?(static evaluation at least 1.5 pawn advantage for white) >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>I get this: >>>> >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 8 | | | | | | | | | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 7 | | *R| | | | | | *P| >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 6 | | | | | | | *P| | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 5 | | | | | | | | | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 4 | P | | | *K| | | | | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 3 | K | | | | | | | P | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 2 | | R | | | | | P | | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> 1 | | | | | | | | | >>>> +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ >>>> a b c d e f g h >>>> >>>>Black(1): sc >>>>end-game phase >>>> clearing hash tables >>>>note: scores are for the white side >>>>material evaluation................. 1.00 >>>>development......................... 0.00 >>>>pawn evaluation..................... 0.12 >>>>passed pawn evaluation.............. 0.24 >>>>passed pawn race evaluation......... 0.00 >>>>interactive piece evaluation........ -0.23 >>>>total evaluation.................... 1.13 >>> >>>I did not ask about the static evaluation of the originial position but about >>>the static evaluation of the position after the line Rxb2 Kxb2 Kc4 Kc2 Kb4 kd3 >>>kxa4 >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>when I do a search, I never get "rxb2" as reasonable: >>> >>>programs get Rxb2 as reasonable because of the following line >>>Rxb2 Kxb2 Kc4 Ka3 g5 g3 h5 g4 h4 Kb2 Kb4 kc2 kxa4 >>>they need time to find this line(more than 1 or 2 seconds). >>>white also can win this pawn ending but programs do not understand this. >>> >>>Uri >> >> >>first, I let crafty search for > 6 minutes. *no* Rxb2. >> >>Next, I tried your variation above where you say "programs do not under stand >>this". Would you call this "understanding that white can win that ending"??? >> >> time surplus 0.00 time limit 1666:39 (1666:39) >> depth time score variation (1) >> 10 0.30 Mat19 8. Kd3 Kb5 9. Ke4 Kc4 10. Kf5 Kd3 11. >> Kxg5 Kd4 12. Kxh4 >> 10-> 0.31 Mat19 8. Kd3 Kb5 9. Ke4 Kc4 10. Kf5 Kd3 11. >> Kxg5 Kd4 12. Kxh4 >> time=0.32 cpu=18% mat=0 n=7341 fh=97% nps=22940 >> >> >>IE *some* programs can figure that out quite easily, and not enter a line >>that is dead lost. This is probably why I don't get Rxb2 *ever*. It >>"knows" better... > > >please don't over look the above... tablebases make a *big* difference >here. IE after only a few plies it reaches the above position and says >"lost"... I understand that tablebases can help to see long mates(instead of material evaluation of 2 pawns advantage) but I do not understand how can they help in the original position because the static evaluation without hash tables in the positions that they can help(king and 2 pawns against king) is more then 0.39 pawn advantage. Uri
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