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Subject: Re: Another interesting Anti-Null move position (from a real game)

Author: Omid David Tabibi

Date: 01:52:53 06/15/04

Go up one level in this thread


On June 14, 2004 at 21:45:44, Anthony Cozzie wrote:

>On June 14, 2004 at 20:12:09, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>
>>On June 14, 2004 at 19:20:57, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>
>>>On June 14, 2004 at 16:31:17, Jaime Benito de Valle Ruiz wrote:
>>>
>>>>[d]8/8/1p4p1/p5kp/Pp1QP1Pq/1P6/6K1/8 w - - 0 62
>>>>
>>>>White moves and wins!
>>>>Can your engine find the right answer and give the proper "crushing" score
>>>>(around 9 pawns!) along with a proper PV? How long does it take?
>>>>Mine doesn't find anything after a long long time (over an hour), but with
>>>>null-move disabled, it takes only a few seconds to show the full PV.
>>>>(Some engines find the right answer, but with a small score, an absurd PV, and
>>>>they change their mind some plies later)
>>>>
>>>>In this position the black king is in a very delicate position: After a couple
>>>>of moves, if the black queen moves, white checkmates inmediately, so both kings
>>>>and queens must remain still while pawns play on their own.
>>>>
>>>>Any good suggestion to avoid this problem with null-move?
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>  Jaime
>>>
>>>Zappa doesn't get it either (gxh5 @ 15 ply after 1 minute).  Zappa relies on
>>>double nullmove for zugzwang avoidance.  This works find for positions with 1
>>>zugzwang, but in this position black gets hit with about 10 of them :)
>>
>>Ehem, ehem, heard about verified null-move pruning? :)
>>
>>
>>>
>>>anthony
>
>
>It's a possibility.  If I understand it correctly verifications performed
>nonrecursively.

The original formulation had problems with detecting several zugzwangs in a
line, and I think it might have failed to find the correct move here. One of the
things I changed in the new formulation is to make the algorithm find as many
zugzwangs there might be along a line.


>
>Right now, my goals are "Deep Zappa" aka "ParZappa" aka "Zappa-NUMA" aka "Zappa"
>and the autotuning stuff; when I get some free time I'll try to give it a shot.
>
>Oh, and I have to rewrite my eval again.
>
>anthony



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