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Subject: Re: Shredder 9 Elo

Author: Stefan Meyer-Kahlen

Date: 06:11:21 01/28/05

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On January 28, 2005 at 08:59:57, Harald Faber wrote:

>On January 28, 2005 at 04:49:54, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>
>>On January 28, 2005 at 02:36:23, Harald Faber wrote:
>>>On January 28, 2005 at 01:49:29, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>>>How much stronger is it?
>>>>This time I will leave the fun to find out to you!:-))
>>>>
>>>>Ciao
>>>>Sandro
>>>
>>>
>>>How many ELOs did you say is Shredder 8 stronger than 7.04? How many ELOs can we
>>>see for real (SSDF)? ;)
>>
>>These questions are probably the reasons why you don't get any Elo expectations
>>from Sandro for Shredder 9, at least this is why you don't get any guess from
>>me.
>
>
>I will not make any guesses either. Actually I was asked some question on that
>issue - read my answer:
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> I am considering buying chesstiger 2004 would u say it is
>> stronger then chesstiger 15 and if so by how much. thanks you
>
>I'd say it is stronger, but I will never say any ELO numbers on how strong
>one program is or how much stronger than predecessor or other
>programs.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>You know that exact Elo numbers are very hard to measure, when you get a number
>>from Sandro, it is a value according to his tests and experience, not a number
>>which is based on marketing. Sandro is one of the most honest people I know, he
>>would never tell you something which he doesn't believe is true.
>
>
>Don't get me wrong. Except Genius 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6 -> 7 I assume that EVERY
>(commercial) program improved from version to version. I only see problems in
>measuring. I am sure that Shredder 8 is stronger than only one point compared
>with Shredder 7.04. But neither can or would I say any number - that would be
>guessing only - nor do I have any idea in which area this number lies nor how to
>"really" measure it.


I am also sure that Shredder 8 is significantly stronger than Shredder 7.04, but
hearing this from me makes it hard to believe for many people.


>>If your Elo guess is wrong, even years later people will remind you of this
>>accusing you (directly or indirectly) of not telling the truth.
>
>
>Years later is trolling IMO. And guesses are easily seen as promises and taken
>for granted, so disappointment is justified for those people. Especially guesses
>from the development team are taken serious...
>
>
>>This has happened many times in the past and is hard and annoying to deal with.
>
>
>That is why I don't and wouldn't do any guesses. Another point is that testers
>sometimes get totally different results or test under their own special
>circumstances which might not be relevant for "normal" play. Letting program A+1
>play 20 Kings Indian positions, not scoring better than program A, so program
>A+1 is "disappointment"...
>
>
>>Shredder9 will be out very soon and you will get many results of it from
>>independent testers quickly. You can chose which one to trust
>
>
>This is what I always do. ;)
>
>
>>and if you like what you hear.
>
>
>Basically this depends on the results. ;)


For me another good reason to get Shredder 9 would be the new improved analysis
feature making backwards analysis much more effective.

Stefan



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