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Subject: Re: Compitition good, but Chess Base taking over?

Author: Lawrence S. Tamarkin

Date: 19:42:42 05/27/99

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On May 27, 1999 at 17:31:58, Marcus Kaestner wrote:

>>With Hiarcs coming out as a Fritz engine this is just one more slot of the
>>strong winning engines that Chess Base has in their corral. (Which win
>>everything & every Human in sight:)).
>
>nonsense

Why nonsense - Both Fritz5 & Junior have won many human & computer tournaments,
and Fritz5 has even recently won (well allegedly  won), in the guise of Allerman
a Swiss event in Germany at normal time controls.  Note; that I didn't say that
other programs did not win, just that the many engines available from Chess Base
have won just about everything.

>
>>
>>Rebel will have a windows version, and presumably the engines Chess Tiger &
>>Chess Partner engines.  Strong but not yet a big challenge to the number of
>>'killers' that Chess Base has.
>
>completely nonsense. watch out for the really tiger. when it appears as
>rebel engine it´s more than competitive to ALL chessbase engines.
>or did you play the latest tiger engines? i think not otherwise you wouldn´t
>tell us this nonsense.

You seem to like this 'nonsense' expression.  I am not familiar with tiger,
although I have heard of its promising test results and look forward to it
taking a high place (Hopefully), in the chess engine world.  Still that is not
the same as currently available and competitive results of programs like Fritz5,
HIARCS6/7, Junior5, etc...

>
>>
>>And Milleniem Genius 6?  Well the Genius6 engine is really Genius5, and it seems
>>unlikely that buyer's of the MCG6 product will get the Richard Lang improvement,
>>should it ever come out, except as an upgrade, which seems wrong to me, as we
>>bought this program under the impression that the engine was new and improved).
>>The Millenium group does not include other free engines (like Chess Base does
>>with Fritz5), with the initial product - You have to figure out Winboard.
>
>one more nonsense. it seems that you´ve never seen the mcs-system. otherwise you
>would know, that there are several genius engines included - as in chessbase
>several fritz engines.

Well I upgraded to Millenium Chess Genius 6 (from 5), and the only engines I
noticed were previous versions of Chess Genius (which I already owned), so no
gain of anything new.  And of course as we all came to know later, Genius6
engine itself does not yet exist!

>
>>
>>And the powerfull engines you can get (Zarkov, Nimzo, W-Chess, etc.), are all
>>more expensive individually then the seperate Chess Base engines. (Some of which
>>are the same names).
>
>what you´re writing here? they does cost the same. and nimzo is cheaper, because
>here you get the full-original-version too. for nothing.

I noticed a typical upgrad price of any Fritz engine has been about $40 dollars.
 I just bought HIARCS7 (Upgrade from previous engines), from Chess Base USA for
$32 dollars ($3 shipping).  That beats any price I have seen for programs like
Shredder, W-Chess, Nimzo (except when you buy it as a Fritz style gui!).  I've
seen an average price of these programs of $119.00 new, & $65 dollars (or more),
as upgrades.  If you have some information where I can get similar new, &
upgrade prices of these engines (as compared to buying from Chess Base &
distributors), I would be most interested.  But using your catorgorical &
insulting expression of 'nonsense', means nothing factual to me.

>>
>>Conclusions:
>>
>>Rebel is a very competive product with a company philosophy of listening to the
>>customer and improving the product at all times, with out unduly raising the
>>price.
>>
>>Millenium Chess Genius has so far 'dropped the ball' as far as (successful),
>>marketing is concerned.  Sure, they'll sell a lot of units (well, compared to
>>what?), but no where as much as the Chess Base company will. (and probably many
>>other companies).
>>
>>Right now, Chess Base products rule as far as features, price, and just about
>>any other factor of competition is concerned. (Except perhaps against the giant
>>company that markets CM6000, which is not the same kind of product as I'm
>>comparing here).  I hope this is a good thing.
>
>here you´re right, but...
>
>>mrslug - the inkompetent chess software addict!
>
>... seems you´re really incompetent.

Why do you insist on being insulting.  I expressed my opinion, as logically as I
could based on the knowledge I have about these programs.  I am as entitled to
my opinion(s) as you are, (or anyone else is), and I feel I must really have
'hit a nerve' for you to have to be so insulting, without producing any actual
factual contridictory evidence that my post was incorrect. Frankly, I am both
surprised and dissapointed that my post has caused you to react with such
hostility at me.

Moderators: please give Mr. Marcus Kaestner a chance to read this post, before
deleting it. Thanks.

mrslug - the COMPETENT chess software addict!



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