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Subject: Re: Crafty 17-10 v Fritz 6a. Nunn 1.....1 min, 2 min, 3 min, 5 min

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:50:02 04/23/00

Go up one level in this thread


On April 23, 2000 at 16:16:46, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On April 23, 2000 at 06:33:59, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On April 23, 2000 at 04:15:48, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On April 23, 2000 at 00:43:49, Chessfun wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 18:35:45, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 22, 2000 at 13:13:00, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Since I never got a reply on what those blitz times were on the
>>>>>>previous thread, I played 1 min game, 2 min game, 3 min game and
>>>>>>5 min game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I was surprized to read that Crafty 17-10 could beat Fritz 6a
>>>>>>in Nunn 1 blitz as no previous version I had was close.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All games on Cel 433.
>>>>>>Anyone wanting the games email me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1 min game Fritz 6a 14.5 - 5.5 Crafty 17-10
>>>>>>2 min game Fritz 6a 14.5 - 5.5 Crafty 17-10
>>>>>>3 min game Fritz 6a 13.0 - 7.0 Crafty 17-10
>>>>>>5 min game Fritz 6a 15.5 - 4.5 Crafty 17-10
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That's a very interesting experiment. Please, keep on playing with longer time
>>>>>controls.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm interested in knowing how programs behave when you change the time controls.
>>>>>
>>>>>Let's see if the result change drastically with much longer time controls.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    Christophe
>>>>
>>>>I have played 10 mins (it's posted now I'm trying 25 then will finish
>>>>at 60 mins.
>>>>
>>>>The original intent was I did not believe the post:
>>>>Sensation Crafty 17-10 beats F6 at nunn 1.
>>>>
>>>>Still don't believe it, don't believe the results or the
>>>>games could ever be reporduced.
>>>>
>>>>The hype around the post was all of course it's natural,
>>>>then when F6 wins it's, well, it's only blitz.
>>>>
>>>>Crafty is a fine program, but sometimes there is IMO
>>>>a little bit too much of biased hype surrounding it's
>>>>results.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>I bet that you'll get the same result (inside the mathematical error margin),
>>>whatever time control you use.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>
>>I believe that if you do enough games you will not get the same result.
>>
>>It seems that Crafty is better at long time control.
>>
>>Based on blitz results you were right that Crafty is 100 elo weaker than the top
>>programs but it seems based on the ssdf games that Crafty is not 100 elo weaker
>>than the top programs at tournament time control inspite of the fact that crafty
>>does not like the ssdf hardware and could earn more 20 elo rating if it used
>>pentium instead of K6III-450.
>>
>>Crafty is only 97 elo weaker than top Fritz6a and Fritz6a is better than the
>>average top program.
>>
>>Maybe the results of blitz games and tournament games do not prove with 95%
>>confidence that crafty is better at long time control but I guess that it is
>>only because of the fact that the ssdf do not have enough games.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>So you say that Crafty is better at long time controls, but pratically we will
>never know because it is unlikely that enough games will be played to confirm
>your statement.
>
>In this case I think it is much better to assume that Crafty is not better than
>his opponents at long time controls.
>
>That's a simple matter of economy: when it's not necessary to introduce a new
>rule to a model, just don't introduce any new rule.
>
>Introducing fancy new rules everywhere is in my opinion obscurantism.
>
>When you have evidence that the model is incomplete to describe what happens in
>reality, add a rule.
>
>When you have evidence that Crafty is better than other programs at long time
>controls, just tell us.
>
>But until that, I don't believe in your proposition.
>
>
>    Christophe

You overlook some important data.  Ed ran some games with a monster time
control.  Do you recall how those came out???




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