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Subject: Re: Ply Depth in relation to Elo again...

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 20:02:36 05/22/00

Go up one level in this thread


On May 22, 2000 at 22:24:20, Mark Young wrote:

>On May 22, 2000 at 18:35:44, Joshua Lee wrote:
>
>>This is the problem i get juggling those numbers....
>>Deeper Blue                1997   (15at a minimum)17-18 Ply  2817 (USCF)
>> 200 MNPS 2.048Thz
>>
>>2817USCF -50 or -100   2767 or 2717FIDE  (not to get sidetracked but keep this
>>in mind -107  2660 or 2610)
>>
>>You said DB2 is +1 ply because it is 2x Faster let's keep in mind the minimum
>>Ply as well
>> Deep Blue                    1996     (14Ply Min 16-17 Ply (*)14 Ply
>>2642(FIDE?)
>> 100 MNps 1.024Thz
>>
>>512Ghz would be 50MNps  and (13Ply Minimum)15 Ply so 2642-50= 2592   or -60
>>=2582
>>or is it -90 =2552???
>>
>>i could really confuse things by considering Deep Blue's Positional Strength
>>as  plain and simple a Programs strength is just it's positional play (which
>>isn't a fact ) people play program X but only positionally. They keep the
>>position devoid of tactics...
>>so let's say 2535- 50 =2485  or -60 = 2475   or is it 2445?
>>
>>Something tells me that this is going to end up Showing that PC's are around
>>2000 which isn't the case!!
>>
>>what i was saying above is that i don't know that we should say programs are
>>-107 or so because lack of positional strength. I got this number by not
>>counting the first game of the DB1 match  Kasparov's rating at the time was 2775
>>which is in itself way inflated from the 70's but that is another topic.
>>I remember someone saying how if you disregarded the first game the results show
>>that even at this depth the positional strength of DB was at 2535 (-107)
>>
>>You said : doubling the cpu speed is generally said to produce 50-60 rating
>>points.Since the typical effective branching factor is around 3.0, every time
>>the
>>speed is tripled, we get another ply, and using the 60 point figure above,
>>a ply would be about 90 rating points, roughly.  But there is nothing that
>>says that as we go deeper this doesn't taper off.  Nor is there anything that
>>says that as we go deeper, the gain doesn't actually get larger...
>
>You are wrong, there is a lot of "say" that shows as you increase ply depth the
>next ply you increase gets fewer and fewer rating points.
>


Where?  IE I have seen this _said_ several times.  But I have never seen it
_shown_.  Two good examples to the contrary are the "crafty goes deep" and
"dark thought goes deep" published in the JICCA.  Both suggest that at least
until we reach depth 15/16, each additional ply is revealing new and more
important information about a position...  and resulting in steadily improving
play...

I think the programs are getting stronger every year, even if nothing is changed
but faster hardware...  and it is reasonably linear...  so far.





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