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Subject: Re: Upon scientific truth - the nature of information

Author: blass uri

Date: 14:51:55 07/15/00

Go up one level in this thread


On July 15, 2000 at 17:32:05, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On July 15, 2000 at 17:20:18, blass uri wrote:
>
>>On July 15, 2000 at 16:59:32, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>>
>>>On July 15, 2000 at 16:45:19, ShaktiFire wrote:
>>>
>>>>Chris Carson has documented dozens of games at standard time control
>>>>of computer play vs. GMs.
>>>>
>>>>I won't knit pick...this or that program, this or that hardware.
>>>>
>>>>But in the last 2 years, dozens of games have been played.  Computers
>>>>vs. GMs at standard time control.
>>>>
>>>>Ratings can be calculated with these games.  The more games played,
>>>>the less uncertainty in the rating.  The rating indicated, based
>>>>on these dozens of games is over 2500.
>>>
>>>You can't include games from all types of programs on all types of hardware
>>>under different game conditions (tournament, exhibition or something else) and
>>>reach a sound conclusion. Given the number of programs and hardware
>>>configurations, you can't say that computer programs as a single entity are of
>>>GM strength. You need an identical setup, software and hardware, and then
>>>conduct enough games to reduce the uncertainty sufficiently to ensure a
>>>confident rating above 2500. The scientific method is testing using a stable and
>>>unchanged setup.
>>
>>If you have many programs that have performance of more than 2500 you can be
>>sure that the best of them has more than 2500 rating.
>>
>>You can do it without identicl setup,software and hardware.
>>
>>You will never get identical setup of software and hardware in the near future
>>so by your logic you cannot claim that programs are GM level in the near future.
>>
>>I disagree.
>
>I disagree with your disagreement.  For each program, they have strengths and
>weaknesses.  All programs have bugs in them too.  To clump them all together is
>unsound not only mathematically, but for the obvious reason that you don't have
>enough programs from one program to find out how to attack it.
>
>Each program must be decided upon its own merits.  Or if we say that "Computer
>programs are GM strengh" then TSCP is a GM.  Absurd?  Of course.  And why not --
>because we have a lot of games by this program to know better.  But if we make a
>few changes to TSCP and make a multithreaded version and put it on a 32 CPU
>alpha it might be a GM.  Was the original TSCP on a PII 300 MHz machine now a
>GM?  Clearly not.   Lumping them together is an act of desparation.  Either that
>or a lack of clear thinking.
>
>A program on a given hardware setup may or may not be a GM.  You cannot lump
>them all together -- it's simply ridiculous.

I can say that at least one of them is a GM.

Imagine that you have 100 different coins and you want to know if they are fair
(probability 1/2 for each side).

Suppose you throw all of them one time and you get 100 heads(all fall on the
same side).

I can reject the conjecture that all of them fair with almost 100% confidence
but if I take only one of them I have not enough data to reject the conjecture
that it is fair.

I know that at least one of them is unfair but I do not know which one.

The same may be for programs.

Uri



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