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Subject: Re: Check with Eduard

Author: Chessfun

Date: 06:39:03 06/26/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 26, 2001 at 09:25:16, Mark Young wrote:

>On June 26, 2001 at 09:14:19, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On June 26, 2001 at 09:09:43, Mark Young wrote:
>>
>>>On June 26, 2001 at 09:01:43, Chessfun wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 08:47:39, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 08:40:58, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 08:09:58, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 07:14:55, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 06:25:16, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On June 26, 2001 at 00:17:21, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On June 25, 2001 at 22:01:57, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On June 25, 2001 at 21:54:07, Mike S. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On June 25, 2001 at 18:15:41, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The results are bogus anyway, I can sit at home and win games as he did....Let
>>>>>>>>>>>>>me run the computer against Eduard....I bet the results would be much different.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why does he not play a 20 game match, the computer will learn what he is doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>and pick a different way of playing against 2.Na3 Then he is toast.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>What matters then, is the single game (each) with a brilliant win against the
>>>>>>>>>>>>program, and not, if the learning feature may avoid repetition (or if some games
>>>>>>>>>>>>may be lost beforehand). That's not the point, but that these games can happen
>>>>>>>>>>>>at least once on each computer. I would be glad if I were capable of winning
>>>>>>>>>>>>such games regularly (I have some, but very few old one's).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Furthermore, why call the results bogus, unless you have evidence that these
>>>>>>>>>>>>games aren't reproduceable or possible? That's not quite fair IMO.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The point is we are talking about games under tournament conditions, not games
>>>>>>>>>>>sitting at home at blitz times, with no controls. Anyone can sit, play with the
>>>>>>>>>>>program, and produce games like this, but its not the same when you don't have
>>>>>>>>>>>control of the screen, program, and the settings of the program.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>To me I see a different point.
>>>>>>>>>>Try playing a GM 50 times and see how many you'll win.
>>>>>>>>>>Forget the time controls for a second as IMO Eduard could easily
>>>>>>>>>>repeat this at tournament controls as I feel I also could.
>>>>>>>>>>Computers are known for being better at blitz than GM's simply log
>>>>>>>>>>onto ICC and have a look. With a computer once you find the path to
>>>>>>>>>>the win in most cases the path remains open. Simply play out of book
>>>>>>>>>>asap if you win the computer in all liklihood will repeat it's same mistakes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Try that against a GM.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You tell me a GM who is willing to be exploited like we can the computer
>>>>>>>>>programs, and I might be able to produce a draw or a win also.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Can I program holes in the human GMs book to let me FOOLS mate him. :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You can't "fools mate" any current program. Most program books are clearly
>>>>>>>>good enough and most strong humans who play them play book lines to about 15
>>>>>>>>moves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now there are *rules* on how you can exploit the programs....I see.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What are you talking about?.
>>>>>>Show me any quick mate against a pc, typically they are all out
>>>>>>of book not in book.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Show me some program holes that allow remember the word you used, "fools mate".
>>>>>
>>>>>Easy, the program allows me to program book lines. The program allows
>>>>>this...yes. I can choose anyway I wish to exploit the program as you guys have
>>>>>done....Unless you are saying there are now rules on how we can exploit the
>>>>>program.
>>>>
>>>>The rules to me are simple.
>>>>Take program x use program x's opening book.
>>>>What is the point of programming a book line to allow "fools mate".
>>>>
>>>>I have seen no posted game where something like that has been done?.
>>>>or to quote you "as you guys have done." so please show me?.
>>>
>>>What are you talking about, we are talking about ways to exploit the computer
>>>program, my way is just easier, but it has the same result and standing.
>>
>>Your way IMO is a simple waste of time.
>>Again I quote "as you guys have done." so please show me?.
>
>Check with Eduard! Because his method is just a way to exploit the programs. And
>you seem to agree with it. no...

There is nothing wrong with what Eduard did.
He used standard opening books. That isn't the same as making a losing book
line. He takes the PC quickly out of book so what's wrong with that?.

Sarah.





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