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Subject: Re: Na3 wins again - Deep Shredder played an bad move!

Author: Martin Schubert

Date: 00:03:11 06/28/01

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On June 27, 2001 at 23:17:01, Chessfun wrote:

>On June 27, 2001 at 18:22:17, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On June 27, 2001 at 17:22:18, Chessfun wrote:
>>
>>>On June 27, 2001 at 17:13:12, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 27, 2001 at 17:04:37, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 27, 2001 at 13:24:45, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 27, 2001 at 13:09:56, Otello Gnaramori wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On June 27, 2001 at 12:45:24, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I post only my fantastical games....and "I'm happy"!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ok.?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Best wishes,
>>>>>>>>Eduard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi Eduard,
>>>>>>>Hi Mark,
>>>>>>>I think that Eduard discovering about weak points or "bad moves" can be very
>>>>>>>helpful for the chess programs developers community because they can learn the
>>>>>>>lesson and fix the weak points of the programs, like in this case Shredder.
>>>>>>>So I think that the contribution of Eduard is welcome as a "tester" of the
>>>>>>>computer creatures.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The programs have the weaknesses at the time controls he is playing at, but so
>>>>>>what, this is not news to any programmer.
>>>>>
>>>>>Rubbish. Programs have the weaknesses at all time controls.
>>>>
>>>>Not exactly the same.
>>>
>>>Not exactly the same more weaknesses but they have weaknesses.
>>>
>>>>Program have weaknesses at all time control but I proved that at least one of
>>>>his games with Na3 could not be won at tournament time control.
>>>
>>>No you proved simply that at a specific more juncture the program
>>>would play a different move, that's a totally different thing altogether.
>>
>>You are right but it seems to me that after Kg8 instead of going forward with
>>the king Eduard could not win.
>>
>>I did not prove that he could not win by the same line but this was my
>>impression.
>
>
>Then that was what you should have posted instead of what you posted.
>
>>>
>>>>I am sure that in more games programs may play better and I simply did not check
>>>>it.
>>>
>>>As the human also has a right to play better.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>He is playing tricks, do it over the board at 40/2 under tournament conditions.
>>>>>>He can't do it, unless he knows the programs book, but if you change the way the
>>>>>>program played a slight bit he would be lost again. For Eduard to win, he must
>>>>>>expolit the computer openness.
>>>>>
>>>>>What are you talking about? have you even bothered to look at any of his games?.
>>>>>The programs are out of book at move 2. So what's the book got to do with
>>>>>anything?.
>>>>
>>>>At tournament conditions the programmer can change the book and Eduard is not
>>>>going to have a possible way to get the program out of book at move 2.
>>>>
>>>>The number of positions after 2 moves is big enough and it is possible to have
>>>>some replies in book against 1.e4 c5 2.Na3 and every short bad line of white.
>>>
>>>The only way is for these type of oddity openings being booked and that
>>>isn't the case with current commercial programs. There are many other lines
>>>that take a program out of book and to make lines for them all is almost
>>>impossible.
>>>
>>>Sarah.
>>
>>It can be done automatically by the program.
>>
>>I remember that someone posted here that the shortest way to get his program out
>>of book was to sacrifice material.
>>
>>It was something like 1.d4 c5 2.dxc5 d5 3.cxd6 e5
>>
>>something like 1.d4 c6 2.c4 a6 does not work.
>
>Whatever try h4 or a4 they both work.
>
>Sarah.

I think it's not important which moves work and which don't. There are a lot of
possibilities. For example in closed sicilian I think there are so many moves
possible. You can't put everything in the book.

Martin



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