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Subject: Re: Na3 wins again - Deep Shredder played an bad move!

Author: Chessfun

Date: 20:17:01 06/27/01

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On June 27, 2001 at 18:22:17, Uri Blass wrote:

>On June 27, 2001 at 17:22:18, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On June 27, 2001 at 17:13:12, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On June 27, 2001 at 17:04:37, Chessfun wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 27, 2001 at 13:24:45, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 27, 2001 at 13:09:56, Otello Gnaramori wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 27, 2001 at 12:45:24, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I post only my fantastical games....and "I'm happy"!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ok.?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Best wishes,
>>>>>>>Eduard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Eduard,
>>>>>>Hi Mark,
>>>>>>I think that Eduard discovering about weak points or "bad moves" can be very
>>>>>>helpful for the chess programs developers community because they can learn the
>>>>>>lesson and fix the weak points of the programs, like in this case Shredder.
>>>>>>So I think that the contribution of Eduard is welcome as a "tester" of the
>>>>>>computer creatures.
>>>>>
>>>>>The programs have the weaknesses at the time controls he is playing at, but so
>>>>>what, this is not news to any programmer.
>>>>
>>>>Rubbish. Programs have the weaknesses at all time controls.
>>>
>>>Not exactly the same.
>>
>>Not exactly the same more weaknesses but they have weaknesses.
>>
>>>Program have weaknesses at all time control but I proved that at least one of
>>>his games with Na3 could not be won at tournament time control.
>>
>>No you proved simply that at a specific more juncture the program
>>would play a different move, that's a totally different thing altogether.
>
>You are right but it seems to me that after Kg8 instead of going forward with
>the king Eduard could not win.
>
>I did not prove that he could not win by the same line but this was my
>impression.


Then that was what you should have posted instead of what you posted.

>>
>>>I am sure that in more games programs may play better and I simply did not check
>>>it.
>>
>>As the human also has a right to play better.
>>
>>>>
>>>>>He is playing tricks, do it over the board at 40/2 under tournament conditions.
>>>>>He can't do it, unless he knows the programs book, but if you change the way the
>>>>>program played a slight bit he would be lost again. For Eduard to win, he must
>>>>>expolit the computer openness.
>>>>
>>>>What are you talking about? have you even bothered to look at any of his games?.
>>>>The programs are out of book at move 2. So what's the book got to do with
>>>>anything?.
>>>
>>>At tournament conditions the programmer can change the book and Eduard is not
>>>going to have a possible way to get the program out of book at move 2.
>>>
>>>The number of positions after 2 moves is big enough and it is possible to have
>>>some replies in book against 1.e4 c5 2.Na3 and every short bad line of white.
>>
>>The only way is for these type of oddity openings being booked and that
>>isn't the case with current commercial programs. There are many other lines
>>that take a program out of book and to make lines for them all is almost
>>impossible.
>>
>>Sarah.
>
>It can be done automatically by the program.
>
>I remember that someone posted here that the shortest way to get his program out
>of book was to sacrifice material.
>
>It was something like 1.d4 c5 2.dxc5 d5 3.cxd6 e5
>
>something like 1.d4 c6 2.c4 a6 does not work.

Whatever try h4 or a4 they both work.

Sarah.




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