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Subject: Re: Vegas odds on Fritz Vs Kramnik match

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 08:08:57 09/06/01

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On September 06, 2001 at 10:06:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 06, 2001 at 06:31:48, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 06, 2001 at 05:39:22, Geo Disher wrote:
>>
>>>On September 05, 2001 at 22:43:29, Jay Rinde wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 05, 2001 at 22:32:52, Chris Kantack wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 05, 2001 at 15:24:56, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>>>>>I think that was the original point.  Common people who make bets DON'T know
>>>>>>much about chess.  The common conception is that computers are better than
>>>>>>humans.  So the masses will bet against Kramnik, making the odds favorable for
>>>>>>those of us who know better!
>>>>>
>>>>>I completely agree with what has been stated in this thread.   But what if Vegas
>>>>>was looking for some kind of "point spread"?   That is, what will the final
>>>>>match score be?   I believe most of us know Kramnik could go undefeated if he
>>>>>wanted to.  But how will he play this match?   Will he keep the score close to
>>>>>make it look good?   In other words, will Kramnik throw a few games to keep the
>>>>>interest level up?   I would not be surprised if that was the plan.
>>>>
>>>>You must be joking!! Yes, you are joking.
>>>
>>>I don't believe he is joking and I agree that it would be in Kamniks interest
>>>not to win all the games if he could.  It would appear that this match was much
>>>diffrent than the Deep Blue Match if he put all his energy into this and won all
>>>the games which I believe he might be able to do.  This could jeopardize the
>>>interest in another match.  Anyway all this being said I would not like to bet
>>>on the spread but on win or loss.  Kramnik to win.
>>
>>I believe that if kramnik can win all the games there is no
>>reason for him not to do it.
>>
>>I do not think that there will be no interest in another match
>>in the future if kramnik gets 100%
>>
>>Kasparov also got 100% against Deep thought and later
>>there was an interest in another match of kasparov
>>against deep blue.
>>
>>I expect kramnik to win the match but I do not believe that
>>he can win all the games when he does not have the exact program.
>>
>>I think you simply underestimate the machine.
>>
>>A weaker version that did not use 8 proceesors drew 3-3 with
>>GM heubner and I do not believe that
>>kramnik can get 100% against huebner.
>>
>>Uri
>
>Chess is not necessarily transitive.  Nothing says that if A beats B 100% of
>the time, and B plays evenly with C 100% of the time, then A will beat C 100%
>of the time.  Even the Elo calculations don't suggest that.
>
>I don't think Kramnik will win every game.  But not because he can't.  Because
>the match is set up in such a way that taking any risk should be avoided.  I
>suspect he is smart enought and wise enough so that he will adopt a match
>strategy that attempts to maximize money won without taking undue risks that
>could backfire.

If he believes that he can win every game then he can try it.
I do not see a significant risk because it is enough for him to win more than to
lose and a strategy of probability of 90% to win every game means almost 100%
chances to win the match

The probability of Deep Fritz to draw the match against this strategy is
0.9^4*0.1^4*70<0.5% and kramnik has more than 99% chances to win the match.

It is not a significant risk and the fact that kramnik needs to work for less
games is enough compensation for it.

90% to win every game means less than 50% to get a 8-0 result and less then 60%
to get 5-0 result.

Uri



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