Author: Uri Blass
Date: 09:54:28 09/13/02
Go up one level in this thread
On September 13, 2002 at 12:43:36, Dave Gomboc wrote: >On September 13, 2002 at 11:54:04, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On September 13, 2002 at 11:31:10, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >> >>>On September 13, 2002 at 11:17:20, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On September 13, 2002 at 11:16:07, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 13, 2002 at 11:06:57, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On September 13, 2002 at 10:56:10, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On September 13, 2002 at 10:38:17, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I disagree. >>>>>>>>>Most of the population of chess programs is clearly weaker than the top >>>>>>>>>programs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Gnuchess is losing against crafty even if you give gnuchess hardware that is 10 >>>>>>>>>times faster if the time control is slow enough and gnuchess is not a weak >>>>>>>>>program but at the level of the average amateur. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I agree. This was chapter one though. Seems fair enough that GNU which has no >>>>>>>>clue about endgames, tablebases, not even GM books, and then being amateur, is >>>>>>>>weaker than Crafty. Was GNU ever tuned on Crafty? I mean if I would take GNU as >>>>>>>>a pro I would make at least 8th place in SSDF out of it. But actually we are >>>>>>>>comparing apples and beans. GNU is not of "this" world now. BTW I played >>>>>>>>SIBIRIAN, for that nice prog I promissed you the same! Implement all the modern >>>>>>>>stuff and it will play billy bully with FRITZ, I suppose. Not even needing >>>>>>>>tablebases. Cough. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Rolf Tueschen >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I have to disagree again. >>>>>>>I do not know how the book of gnuchess was build but it is not so bad and it has >>>>>>>a lot of variety. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I do not think that gnu lose games because of book. >>>>>>>Tablebases are also not very important. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Gnu is going to lose also against list inspite of the fact that list has no book >>>>>>>and not because of tablebases advantage. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Gnu need better search rules and better evaluation in order to be in the same >>>>>>>level of the top programs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Uri >>>>>> >>>>>>Again I must agree. Since all modern progs are founded on these free (?) sources >>>>>>by defintion they are stronger. How could they be weaker? That is the same with >>>>>>the pro's which were all founded in parts on CRAFTY. How could CRAFTY still be >>>>>>stronger? >>>>> >>>>>The pro are not based on crafty and crafty clearly has knowledge that most pro >>>>>do not have. >>> >>>To specify this I have to change it into "all new and working ideas" in Crafty >>>have been noted by the pros and they will surely have found a way to implement >>>the idea into their own prog. I didn't mean that thy simply copied the code, >>>which could be understood because I wrote "free sources". What I meant was ideas >>>that could be examined because they were published in public. Please correct me >>>if that is impossible for reasons unknown to me. Also I din't mean that the pros >>>were just waiting for news spreading out of Bob's working kitchen. Of course >>>they make their own inventions too. At least I think so. >>> >>>Rolf Tueschen >> >>I know that at least part of the pro did not do it. >>I know that Ed only in the last Rebel reinvented the internal iterative >>deepening. >> >>He was surprised to find that this idea is used in crafty. >> >>He looked at the comments in the crafty code some years ago but he missed >>the comment about internal iterative deepening. >> >>He did not look at the crafty source code later based on my knowledge. >> >>I know that other programmers also did not learn the ideas in the crafty >>code. >>I think that the main problem is to understand it. >> >>It is not easy to understand the crafty code and programmers prefer to use their >>time to try their ideas instead of trying to understand the crafty code. >> >>Uri > > >Ed's IID is different than traditional IID, though. > >Dave Yes but the point is that Ed did not know about the IID idea when he invented it. Uri
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