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Subject: Re: Warp - Diep, WCCC

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 18:04:49 12/02/02

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On December 02, 2002 at 20:59:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On December 02, 2002 at 19:19:15, Peter Berger wrote:
>>On December 02, 2002 at 18:27:27, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>DIEP only considers Qf6. I myself only consider Qf6 to be best move.
>>>I jumped up immediately pawn after Qe8.
>>Qe8 is a bad move agreed. My first impression was that Qf6 wins, too. But after
>>trades and Ng6 the black position looks quite solid. Can you give some lines you
>>think win for white?
>I remember how i felt during the game when i saw Qf6 and i was failing
>low to nearly white up 3 pawns. In fact to white up 2.938.
>Basically as a human i would find it a tough position for white to
>win, but if you analyze it a bit you will soon see that black cannot
>to that much. basically its only hope is a knight pin to g2.
>In all lines white seemingly can make free a rook to 'hack' into
>the black queen position.
>After 39.Qf6 Qxf6 40.gxf6 Ng6 then white goes for example 41.a4 with the
>big problem that blacks rook cannot move from d-file because of Rd3.
>So whites seemingly weak a and c pawns are safe by means of major threats
>towards the black king position.
>Even then it is not 100% clear of course like most computer positions
>which are a mess this also is a mess. White has a stupid bishop and
>black has a stupid knight pair.
>If black manages to eliminate 3 pawns on the queen side there is obvious
>good draw chances for black. Yet in not a single analysis i managed that
>when i let diep play white as it has in all lines c5 always, which also
>happened in the game.
>For example:
>  41... h6
>  42.a5!? Kh7
>  43.Rb2  Ngf4
>  44.c5!  bxc5
>  45.Rb7  and score is already +4.4 here and if
>          Ne2 is not a problem for white then it is
>          trivial that white wins.
>So what else to try?
>Let's try the seemingly very stupid
>  43...   bxa5
>  44. Rb7 Ng5
>  45. c5  and one of whites passers is clearly unstoppable
>          in combination with h4 and Rg7 mate threats. +5.0 even
>          which is logical. black plays witout knights on the queen side.
>So it is clear that allowing c5 is a major problem. But can
>black prevent it? I guess not. It means already you must go play
>stupid computer lines with black at move 42 which go to trivially
>lost bishop versus knight endings which as a FM i win blindfolded.
>I guess you can imagine that when i saw DIEP having the queen exchange
>in its lines even before warp played Qf6, that i was extremely depressed,
>because the whole position is extremely simple to win for white as soon
>as you realize that white can so a quick c5.
>However soon i got very optimistic about winning the game when Chop
>planned to give some checks and take of a stupid pawn on a7.
>Then when i was getting very happy about having still winning chances,
>when Warp allowed black to not get into an endgame.
>Warp managed to still get a draw with a well timed c5 move, which is
>simply saving Warps ass, but desipte that i still hoped that
>all those pieces near whites king would kill it. Very lucky also the
>resulting endgame after all the exchanges were a draw for white.
>I had hoped for more after the Qe8 move and seeing the pawn grabbing
>mainlines at a7.
>Directly Qxa7 instead of Qf6 i don't want to analyze too well in fact.
>A short line should do, because i get directly many fail lows after
>after Nf4 there for white, so it is trivial that black has excellent draw
>chances there 4 pieces combining against a poor white king. i don't see
>how Peter can believe in that for white. He needs a chess course :)

perhaps after Qxa7 a direct Qe4 is directly forcing a draw there.
white can win a bunch of pawns by some sacrafices on g6 but then
white has to give always perpetual check after:

qxa7 qe4 qxb6 nf3 g6 hg6 rg4 qa8 rxg6 fxg6 qxe6 nxg1 qf6+

it takes diep a while to see that this is a draw. weird. looks
trivial to me as long as you don't lose the d1 rook.

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