Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Warp - Diep, WCCC

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 17:59:01 12/02/02

Go up one level in this thread


On December 02, 2002 at 19:19:15, Peter Berger wrote:

>On December 02, 2002 at 18:27:27, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>DIEP only considers Qf6. I myself only consider Qf6 to be best move.
>>I jumped up immediately pawn after Qe8.
>>
>
>Qe8 is a bad move agreed. My first impression was that Qf6 wins, too. But after
>trades and Ng6 the black position looks quite solid. Can you give some lines you
>think win for white?

I remember how i felt during the game when i saw Qf6 and i was failing
low to nearly white up 3 pawns. In fact to white up 2.938.

Basically as a human i would find it a tough position for white to
win, but if you analyze it a bit you will soon see that black cannot
to that much. basically its only hope is a knight pin to g2.

In all lines white seemingly can make free a rook to 'hack' into
the black queen position.

After 39.Qf6 Qxf6 40.gxf6 Ng6 then white goes for example 41.a4 with the
big problem that blacks rook cannot move from d-file because of Rd3.

So whites seemingly weak a and c pawns are safe by means of major threats
towards the black king position.

Even then it is not 100% clear of course like most computer positions
which are a mess this also is a mess. White has a stupid bishop and
black has a stupid knight pair.

If black manages to eliminate 3 pawns on the queen side there is obvious
good draw chances for black. Yet in not a single analysis i managed that
when i let diep play white as it has in all lines c5 always, which also
happened in the game.

For example:
  41... h6
  42.a5!? Kh7
  43.Rb2  Ngf4
  44.c5!  bxc5
  45.Rb7  and score is already +4.4 here and if
          Ne2 is not a problem for white then it is
          trivial that white wins.

So what else to try?

Let's try the seemingly very stupid
  43...   bxa5
  44. Rb7 Ng5
  45. c5  and one of whites passers is clearly unstoppable
          in combination with h4 and Rg7 mate threats. +5.0 even
          which is logical. black plays witout knights on the queen side.

So it is clear that allowing c5 is a major problem. But can
black prevent it? I guess not. It means already you must go play
stupid computer lines with black at move 42 which go to trivially
lost bishop versus knight endings which as a FM i win blindfolded.

I guess you can imagine that when i saw DIEP having the queen exchange
in its lines even before warp played Qf6, that i was extremely depressed,
because the whole position is extremely simple to win for white as soon
as you realize that white can so a quick c5.

However soon i got very optimistic about winning the game when Chop
planned to give some checks and take of a stupid pawn on a7.

Then when i was getting very happy about having still winning chances,
when Warp allowed black to not get into an endgame.

Warp managed to still get a draw with a well timed c5 move, which is
simply saving Warps ass, but desipte that i still hoped that
all those pieces near whites king would kill it. Very lucky also the
resulting endgame after all the exchanges were a draw for white.

I had hoped for more after the Qe8 move and seeing the pawn grabbing
mainlines at a7.

Directly Qxa7 instead of Qf6 i don't want to analyze too well in fact.
A short line should do, because i get directly many fail lows after
after Nf4 there for white, so it is trivial that black has excellent draw
chances there 4 pieces combining against a poor white king. i don't see
how Peter can believe in that for white. He needs a chess course :)












This page took 0.06 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 07 Jul 11 08:48:38 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.