Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 11:04:19 12/11/02
Go up one level in this thread
On December 11, 2002 at 12:35:19, Edward Seid wrote: >On December 11, 2002 at 12:23:22, Sandi Ordinario wrote: > >> Western Chess - 10 >> Go - 9 or 9.5 >> Xianggi - 7 >> Shogi - 4 >> Othello _ 2 > >It's interesting that you would rank Western Chess as more complex than Go. >Western chess programs are GM-strength. Are Go programs equally capable? If similar effort would have been put in go like it has been in chess, my answer would be yes. But i could imagine that after my chessprogram has been finished (perhaps never) that when i find someone who is good in GO that i improve my GO program. I see most of the strongest go programs make mistakes which some simple evaluation knowledge can fix easily in combination with search. Despite huge evaluation functions some still do not know much from evaluation programming i get the impression. They focus upon things humans find difficult instead of fixing some major strategical bugs which causes me to win from all GO programs. It's an amateur league really. I lack positional knowledge to create a good GO program. Like how you attack a weak group. It's all standard for strong GO players. Not for me. But consider this. Nullmove works a lot better in GO than it does in chess. The quotes branching factors are bloody nonsense. Even for a 6 ply search the b.f. it is already way under 10.0 in GO. Some also do not know how to program. Some evaluation functions scan the board in a very idiotic way. Branches all over which can be replaced. A simple lossless rewrite making it 10 times faster... Add to that, that there is no GM title in GO. However important is to realize that if i pay a GO player money to play my go program, without paying him to win (like it happens in the computerchess world) and make all the conditions equal to what happens in the computerchess world, that the GO player will have a real hard time. Do not forget that the first 'beating' of GMs in the computerchess world was at 5 0 level. I have to see the first professional go player manage to play 150 moves within 5 minutes instead of a full day. Suppose you let a small FM play against a strong chessprogram at a level of a full day for the entire game. Of course the FM will win. Did you consider that? >I know one Shogi player who tells me that the ability of the available Shogi >programs is lacking, but I wonder if that is because it is complicated to >program a Shogi program or because there has not been much interest in producing >a good Shogi program as there has been a good western Chess program.
This page took 0.01 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.