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Subject: Re: Hydra Mystery Remains Unsolved

Author: Bob Durrett

Date: 08:15:28 02/18/04

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On February 18, 2004 at 10:59:09, Anthony Cozzie wrote:

>On February 17, 2004 at 15:59:48, Bob Durrett wrote:
>
>>On February 17, 2004 at 15:36:30, Tord Romstad wrote:
>>
>>>On February 17, 2004 at 15:23:57, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bob, please indulge a "slow learner."  I still don't get it.  Are you saying
>>>>that the best way to get ***really*** high nps rates is with hardware [maybe
>>>>such as used by Hydra?] as opposed to using a PC?
>>>>
>>>>Incidentally, I am really feeling ignorant right now.  How did Hydra get such
>>>>high nps?
>>>>
>>>>I hope you don't mind helping a beginner along on this confusing stuff.
>>>
>>>OK, I'll try:
>>>
>>>The CPU which sits inside your PC is, of course, not designed to
>>>play chess.  It does not have any intructions to evaluate chess positions,
>>>generate legal moves, or any other chess-related tasks.  When a chess
>>>program running on a PC performs such operations, each task is translated
>>>into a really big number of instructions for the CPU to execute.  Executing
>>>all these instructions consumes a lot of clock cycles.
>>>
>>>Hydra, if I have understood correctly, uses hardware which is designed
>>>to play chess.  It contains several processors which are built with the
>>>purpose of executing chess-specific tasks quickly and efficiently.
>>>Hydra's hardware probably *has* instructions for evaluating positions,
>>>generating moves, and similar tasks.  Therefore, the processors don't
>>>have to execute nearly as many instructions for each node as the PC
>>>does.  As a result of this, Hydra doesn't need as many clock cycles
>>>to process one node in the search tree, and this means that it can
>>>achieve a really high NPS despite a low clock frequency.
>>>
>>>Tord
>>
>>That is useful.  Thanks.
>>
>>The way it is with true beginners is that for every answer they think of ten
>>more questions.  Smarter people are smart enough to not show their ignorance,
>>whereas the beginners, like me, don't have anything to lose.  : )
>>
>>I guess by now you have figured out that I have another question!  : )
>>
>>It seems to me that there should be some way to provide a "cost" benefit for a
>>hardware feature, with the benefit measured in nps.
>>
>>For example, a "move generator chip" should be worth X nps.
>>
>>As another example, consider a "position evaluator chip."  It is worth Y nps.
>>
>>This can go on for all the important functions performed in a chess engine.
>>
>>Would you care to estimate [guess at] the nps value of such chips?
>>
>>In this application, it would seem that a few well-designed chips might go a
>>long way!
>>
>>Bob D.
>
>Please read up on computer architecture for 3 months.  Once you know the basics,
>I'll happily explain the rest to you, but it is tiring to go through everything
>again and again.
>
>anthony

Anthony, sometimes programmers look down their noses at hardware people like me.
 But if there were no hardware, programmers would be as helpless as a newborn
baby.  There is more that is worthy than just programming.

Bob D.



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