Author: Will Singleton
Date: 17:36:08 02/27/04
Go up one level in this thread
On February 27, 2004 at 19:51:42, Bas Hamstra wrote: >On February 27, 2004 at 02:39:50, Dann Corbit wrote: > >>On February 26, 2004 at 16:17:16, Albert Silver wrote: >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>I was wondering whether the accusations regarding List 5.12 had been clarified >>>and if so what was the result? The program was removed from the World >>>Championship, so it was clearly a very serious accusation, yet I still see doubt >>>on its integrity mentioned regarding its potential inclusion in the SSDF. I >>>admit I'm confused. This wasn't last week, so what's the deal? >>> >>> Albert >> >>Nothing has come out. >> >>Here is my opinion: >> >>List is completely different structure wise (not bitboard based). >> >>However, some amounts of crafty machinery may have been used (guessing, based on >>object module names in the older versions of List). However, let me temper my >>statement. There is not enough evidence to show that List is a clone of crafty. >> All the evidence I know of is circumstantial leanings. >> >>From the List binaries, we can pull these strings: >> >>List 4.60: >>F:\List\460\A10\attacks.c >>F:\List\460\A10\bench.c >>F:\List\460\A10\captures.c >>F:\List\460\A10\chessboard.c >>F:\List\460\A10\hash.c >>F:\List\460\A10\init.c >>F:\List\460\A10\io.c >>F:\List\460\A10\list.c >>F:\List\460\A10\make.c >>F:\List\460\A10\moves.c >>F:\List\460\A10\next.c >>F:\List\460\A10\opening.c >>F:\List\460\A10\pawnhash.c >>F:\List\460\A10\phase.c >>F:\List\460\A10\ponder.c >>F:\List\460\A10\recog.c >>F:\List\460\A10\score.c >>F:\List\460\A10\search.c >>F:\List\460\A10\searchr.c >>F:\List\460\A10\sort.c >>F:\List\460\A10\test.c >>F:\List\460\A10\timer.c >>F:\List\460\A10\undo.c >>F:\List\460\A10\utility.c >> >>List 4.61: >>F:\List\470\A8\attacks.c >>F:\List\470\A8\bench.c >>F:\List\470\A8\captures.c >>F:\List\470\A8\chessboard.c >>F:\List\470\A8\hash.c >>F:\List\470\A8\init.c >>F:\List\470\A8\io.c >>F:\List\470\A8\list.c >>F:\List\470\A8\make.c >>F:\List\470\A8\moves.c >>F:\List\470\A8\next.c >>F:\List\470\A8\pawnhash.c >>F:\List\470\A8\phase.c >>F:\List\470\A8\ponder.c >>F:\List\470\A8\recog.c >>F:\List\470\A8\score.c >>F:\List\470\A8\search.c >>F:\List\470\A8\searchr.c >>F:\List\470\A8\sort.c >>F:\List\470\A8\test.c >>F:\List\470\A8\timer.c >>F:\List\470\A8\undo.c >>F:\List\470\A8\utility.c >> >>List 5.01: >>F:\List\Native\4\attacks.c >>F:\List\Native\4\board.c >>F:\List\Native\4\captures.c >>F:\List\Native\4\hash.c >>F:\List\Native\4\init.c >>F:\List\Native\4\interface.c >>F:\List\Native\4\list.c >>F:\List\Native\4\make.c >>F:\List\Native\4\moves.c >>F:\List\Native\4\next.c >>F:\List\Native\4\pawns.c >>F:\List\Native\4\phase.c >>F:\List\Native\4\recog.c >>F:\List\Native\4\score.c >>F:\List\Native\4\search.c >>F:\List\Native\4\sort.c >>F:\List\Native\4\speed.c >>F:\List\Native\4\time.c >>F:\List\Native\4\undo.c >>F:\List\Native\4\utility.c >> >>List 5.04: >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\attacks.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\board.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\captures.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\evasions.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\hash.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\init.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\interface.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\io.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\list.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\make.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\moves.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\next.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\pawns.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\phase.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\root.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\score.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\search.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\speed.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\timer.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\uint64.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\undo.c >>F:\Dezember 2002\Referenz List 504\Native\utility.c >> >> >>List 5.12: >>Has the symbols stripped. >> >>Now, most of the module names are pretty generic. And many of the crafty module >>names are not present (e.g. the EPD stuff). However, there are also some >>striking similarities. An example is searchr.c [in the List versions 4.x], >>which is a name unique to crafty modules as far as I have ever seen. >> >>His evaluation debugger uses symbol names very similar to those in crafty, such >>as: >> >> material_score >> pawn_structure_score >> passed_pawn_score >> king_safety_score >> interactive_score >> total_score >> >>It seems that he has studied crafty carefully in the very least. It is also >>possible that he simply modeled List's evaluation factor names after those he >>saw in crafty. It would not even be necessary to examine the source code to do >>that. >> >>My theory is that he may have started with crafty some long time ago, and did >>major surgery. As time went by, the program became quite different. However, >>when he was called out on the carpet, perhaps he realized that the crafty >>heritage would be strong enough to be considered a clone. >> >>The silence now is rather alarming, since so much time has gone by. >> >>So I am guessing nothing will ever be said about it. It would be nice if he >>would clarify things for us. > >Wow. I too thought is was a totally false accusation, now it rather seems your >theory is more near the truth. In itsself it is no problem to start with Crafty >and modify it. In fact this has always been encouraged by Bob. There are several >authors who started with old programs like GNU and went their own way with it. >It's difficult. How much do you need to have changed to rightfully call it your >program? That's why I don't like copying code at all. Ideas, yes. Code, no. I >can understand Bruce, who wrote his own TB code for this reason. Not that I go >that far. > >Bas. Some of us don't have TB code for that reason.
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