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Subject: Re: Hydra node speed from CSS forum

Author: Anthony Cozzie

Date: 18:57:13 08/30/04

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On August 30, 2004 at 16:59:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 30, 2004 at 16:23:25, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>
>>On August 30, 2004 at 15:33:19, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On August 30, 2004 at 14:51:01, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 30, 2004 at 13:51:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 30, 2004 at 12:24:54, Volker Böhm wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 30, 2004 at 10:02:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On August 30, 2004 at 08:30:34, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On August 30, 2004 at 08:12:52, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Eine FPGA-Karte untersucht momentan ca. 3 Millionen Positionen/Sekunde. 16
>>>>>>>>>Karten machen daher theoretisch 48 MPos/sec. (Donninger)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      If Hydra made 48 Mpos/sec this again proves (in comparison
>>>>>>>>      with the 2 Mpos/sec on Quad-Opteron server with 4 CPU's of
>>>>>>>>      Shredder) that the number of pos/sec can't be taken as a
>>>>>>>>      reliable value for the goodness of a chess program. It's
>>>>>>>>      of course simply impossible to compare apples and organes.
>>>>>>>>      Kurt [http://www.utzingerk.com]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Don't forget that Hydra ripped Shredder's head off.  So the NPS _might_ be
>>>>>>>significant here...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Didn´t I´ve heard you saying that 10 games are not enough to draw a
>>>>>>statistically significant conclusion on the playing strength?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Greetings Volker
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>With two _close_ opponents, correct.  But if one is seriously stronger, as hydra
>>>>>appeared to be, 10 games is plenty.
>>>>
>>>>We do not know if hydra is seriously stronger.
>>>
>>>We have a pretty good clue that it is.  It is over 10x faster, potentially, than
>>>other programs.
>>>
>>>1. I first assume that the programmer / designer is no dummy.
>>>
>>>2.  all else being "equal" 10x faster is a _serious_ advantage.
>>>
>>>3.  the above two points translate into a signficant strength advantage.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>You cannot start by assuming that hydra is significantly stronger when this is
>>>>the question.
>>>
>>>With evidence, you can.  IE I can certainly assume that Crafty on an 8-way
>>>opteron is significantly stronger than Crafty on my dual xeon.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>If you see 10-0 you can say based on the result that Hydra is significantly
>>>>stronger but when you see 5.5-2.5 you cannot claim it based on the result and
>>>>you only can say that you do not know if it is significantly stronger based on
>>>>the result.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If you only look at the results, maybe or maybe not.  But I watched many of the
>>>games with Crafty analyzing.  That tells you even more.
>>
>>Hydra is unquestionably very strong, but lets not forget that Shredder lost the
>>first two games out of book.
>>
>>anthony
>
>
>Depends also on the definition of "lost".  IE it didn't come out of book at -4
>or something.  It just got rolled in kingside attacks because of castle-opposite
>issues that Hydra seemed to play better.  Of course the stronger side often does
>play such positions better. :)

Of course Hydra is very strong.  Its just that I am not willing to throw in the
towel on Shredder and declare Hydra the new WCCC just yet ;)

anthony



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