Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Root move ordering - an experiment

Author: Stuart Cracraft

Date: 20:49:01 09/28/04

Go up one level in this thread


On September 28, 2004 at 16:29:29, martin fierz wrote:

>On September 28, 2004 at 13:43:48, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>
>>On September 28, 2004 at 08:44:04, martin fierz wrote:
>>
>>>On September 28, 2004 at 08:19:15, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 28, 2004 at 02:14:51, martin fierz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 27, 2004 at 23:45:54, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I experimented with reordering root ply at iterative depth iply >  1
>>>>>>where 1 is the root ply, with the results of iply-1 sorted by the
>>>>>>total nodes of quiescence and main search defined as the # of entries
>>>>>>for each of those subroutines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I didn't sort at root node on the first sort by quiescence but instead
>>>>>>by my normal scheme though I tried quiescence and it was worse. I felt
>>>>>>this gave a better chance to the above method.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I sorted moves at the root ply for iply > 1 in the following way
>>>>>>for 7 different parts to the experiment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   sort by normal method (history heuristic, mvv/lva, see, etc.
>>>>>>   sort exactly by subtree node count, nothing else
>>>>>>   sort by subtree node count added to normal score (hh, mvv/lva, see, etc.)
>>>>>>   same as previous but node count x 10 before addition
>>>>>>   same as previous but node count x 100 before addition
>>>>>>   same as previous but node count x 1000 before addition
>>>>>>   same as previous but node count x 10000 before addition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The results, measured by # right on Win-at-Chess varied from
>>>>>>250 for the first in the list above to 234 for the last.
>>>>>>Most bunched up between 244-247 except the first was 250,
>>>>>>my current best on WAC with handtuning everything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For me, I'm convinced that this style of sorting root ply is
>>>>>>slightly less good for my short searches compared to what I am using:
>>>>>>a combination of history, heuristic, see(), and centrality with
>>>>>>various bonuses, about a half page of code sprinkled about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The advantage  of sorting root node by subtree is the simplicity.
>>>>>>It eliminates about a half a page of code and introduces
>>>>>>about a quarter page of code for only slightly lesser results
>>>>>>(within 1-2% of my current result) so that is good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Still I think I'll leave it #ifdefed out for now and use it as
>>>>>>a baseline that is only improvable upon with handtuning of my
>>>>>>current methods and others to be discovered.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Stuart
>>>>>
>>>>>...as ed schröder said to me: "terrible testing". he was right, of course.
>>>>>
>>>>>cheers
>>>>>  martin
>>>>
>>>>Each to his own.
>>>
>>>if you get free advice from one of the world's best computer chess programmers
>>>it is a good idea to use it. there's not much point writing tons of posts here
>>>asking for advice if you don't listen....
>>>
>>>cheers
>>>  martin
>>
>>Well, condemnations aside, without specific feedback beyond "Oh that's just
>>bad" (I can get that at work from the boss or from relatives) -- I don't
>>respond well to that kind of input. It is non-constructive.
>
>my post was meant very constructively :-)
>i just posted something about root move ordering a day or two ago, and ed
>schröder answered "terrible testing" with a short explanation of why. i expected
>you had read that thread, and knew what i meant. if not, read it now!
>
>cheers
>  martin
>
>PS: if you are not in the habit of reading posts of some particular persons
>(like ed, bob etc) on this board, you should get into that too! other people
>have something to say too of course, but we do have some
>world-class-chess-programmers here and i try to read everything they write...

Believe me: I read every character, every sentence, every word, every
comma, every dot of Ed S. and Bob H.




This page took 0.01 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.