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Subject: Re: Good news

Author: George Tsavdaris

Date: 07:46:49 11/19/04

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On November 19, 2004 at 10:16:11, David Dahlem wrote:

>On November 19, 2004 at 07:18:28, George Tsavdaris wrote:
>
>> Actually, for an experienced Chess-engine user like you, it is easy to see that
>>when having a specific "small" score for many plies up to 16, which doesn't
>>change at all, then the position is most probably a draw if we are talking for
>>an edngame. (Smarthink finds the draw but it's materialistic DNA, prevents it
>>from showing a zero score.)
>
>A draw score is 0.00 as evaluated by engines. It's not up to the user to read
>the mind of an engine and interpret something different than the engines
>evaluation. An evaluation of +1.23 certainly can not be interpreted as a draw
>score!!
>

 What do you mean with "it's not up to user"? If you suggest that the user
should see ONLY the score of an engine in order to say if the position is
"white/black wins" or "white/black has the advantage" or "game is draw" then i
believe you are wrong.
 Someone has to see BOTH the score and the tendency of the score to value a
position.

 For example if an engine for position A, gives the following:
Ply-12 = 6.00
Ply-13 = 5.87
Ply-14 = 5.48
Ply-15 = 4.32
Ply-16 = 2.52

while at position B, gives:
Ply-12 = 1.02
Ply-13 = 1.37
Ply-14 = 2.48
Ply-15 = 2.32
Ply-16 = 2.52

then you most probably(in most cases/positions) be wrong if you assume that both
positions are big advantages for white, since at P-A we have a huge fail low
that we can't be sure where it will end, while at P-B we have a more stable
situation, although the scores at both positions are the same.

 Another example is if an engine for position C which is an endgame with very
few pieces, gives the following:
Ply-10 = 1.12
Ply-11 = 1.14
Ply-12 = 1.14
Ply-13 = 1.14
Ply-14 = 1.14
Ply-15 = 1.14
Ply-16 = 1.14
Ply-17 = 1.14

while at position D which is an endgame with very few pieces, gives the
following:
Ply-12 = -0.12
Ply-13 = -0.16
Ply-14 =  0.00
Ply-15 =  0.37
Ply-16 =  0.58
Ply-17 =  1.14

then you most probably(in most cases/positions) be wrong if you assume that both
positions are advantages for white, since at P-C we have a stable "small" score
for the last 8 plies, while at P-B we have a fail high that may end to a score
+2.50 for example in favour of white, although the scores at both positions are
the same.
 This stable "small" score shows that most probably white hasn't any really good
move to do, but only just play it's pieces around although it has a small
advantage(a Pawn more or some mobility more) and since most engines don't have
the ability to interpret that this small advantage will lead to a draw, they
just show this small advantage until we reach 50-move rule.




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