Author: chandler yergin
Date: 00:56:43 05/22/05
Go up one level in this thread
On May 21, 2005 at 21:06:21, Terry McCracken wrote: >On May 21, 2005 at 13:10:11, chandler yergin wrote: > >>On May 21, 2005 at 03:41:19, Terry McCracken wrote: >> >>>On May 21, 2005 at 03:13:00, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>On May 20, 2005 at 20:42:14, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 20, 2005 at 19:50:00, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 20, 2005 at 18:42:57, Daniel Pineo wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 20, 2005 at 03:45:37, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 20, 2005 at 03:21:34, jefkaan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2005 at 14:01:43, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>He certainly knows something of opening theory. He's a little passed 1.e4:o) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>that's fine in a anti-computer style. >>>>>>>>>but fundamentally 1.e4 is the best. >>>>>>>>>it might be a solution of chess. >>>>>>>>>but we wont know this of course until >>>>>>>>>the year 3000 or so(*) >>>>>>>>>best regards >>>>>>>>>jef >>>>>>>>>(*)yes chess also might be a draw; we don't know yet >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I do...it's a draw, and the proof is all around you in the chess world. >>>>>> >>>>>>Yes Terry, again assertions, no Proof. >>>>>>How little you know. >>>>>>Proving once again.. you don't know! >>>>>>The 'evidence' is against your position! >>>>>>The facts are against your position! >>>>>> >>>>>>Based on 1,114,334 Games >>>>>>1-0 413,652 games = 34% >>>>>> >>>>>>1/2 1/2 381,463 games or 35% >>>>>> >>>>>>0-1 318,393 Games or 28% >>>>>> >>>>>>You have NO argument or point! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>And what might that proof be? >>>>> >>>>>I gave antidotal evidence, ie, one pawn up is 99% of the time a draw, there is >>>>>statistical evidence that chess is a draw...number wins losses and draws...etc. >>>>> >>>>>No way in hell can the first half move win...it's value falls with every >>>>>consective move played thereafter, barring any errors. >>>>> >>>>>Tell me Chan, do you know any GM's that would say chess isn't a draw? >>>> >>>>Yes, probably most of them. >>> >>>No, you wouldn't. >>> >>>>As long as there is the human element, a battle of wills and ideas, the game >>>>will continue to be Wins, Losses & Draws. Three possible outcomes, the >>>>Percentages are yet to be determined. >>> >>>We have a broad database on that. Karpov was pleased with the level of chess >>>today and the increasing level of draws. >>> >>>> >>>>>Besides, you beleive it to be a draw so what's your damn problem?! >>>> >>>>No, I don't believe it can be proven now or ever. >>> >>> >>>Don't be so certain. >>> >>>>The player that moves first has an advantage. >>> >>>Very small...it's worth at best 20 rating points. >>>It drops rapidly, after ten moves it is hardly apparent. >>> >>>>Whether this initiative can be nullified with perfect play can not be >>>>determined. Nor can perfect play ever be determined. >>> >>>Yeah, I've heard this how many times now? Too many! >>> >>>>You can speculate that with 'perfect' play on both sides it should be. >>>>That does not make it so. This is not Tic tac toe. >>> >>>Really? As if I hadn't noticed...and it's not relevent. >>> >>>>We can only list the millions of game that have been played since Chess >>>>was invented as a game, & review the results. >>>>We have done that. >>> >>>Yes, and it favours the draw Chan. >>> >>>Now for KK. >>> >>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?427154 >>> >>>There is a way to statistically prove it which is not a mathematical proof of >>>course. >> >>What do you consider Statistics are if not mathmatical? >>Hmmm? >> >There's is a big difference between a mathmatical proof and statistics! > >> What you do is look at results of matches between players of equal >>>caliber . You look at different calibers(ie:rating).You then measure the draw >>>results. You can also do it with different time control matches as well. If the >>>% of draws goes up constantly all the way to the top ratings, and if your sample >>>sizes are large enough then statistics would point to whether with perfect play >>>chess is a draw or not. >> >>No it won't. >> >>You cannot get a significant Sample Size! >> Your Basic Premise is wrong! >> >> >> You would be hard pressed to find any GM who thinks >>>chess is a win for white. >>>KK >> >> The Statistics speak for itself. >> >>Based on 1,114,334 Games >>1-0 413,652 games = 34% >>1/2 1/2 381,463 games or 35% >>0-1 318,393 Games or 28% >>These are Rated Games from the Total played. >> >>As long as Chess is played between humans there are only 3 possible outcomes >>Win Loss or Draw. >> >>There will always be a percentage of Draws among the Top Players. >>So what? >>It will never approach a significant Percentile. >>White always has the advantage. > >Not enough of an advantage to win, you know that or at least you should know >that. > >Let's leave it at that. Fine, then stop 'asserting' Chess is a Draw! It's foolish!
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